LOUD guitar for busking

[adamrhowe]

I think this topic has been brought up before but here it is again!

I have roughly £800 to spend (about $1000) on a loud guitar for busking (either vintage or modern) 20s/30s Jazz in a small ensemble. I've been using an archtop which has been okay but I want more volume so I dont have to hit so hard. I've almost ruled out another archtop as getting one any louder will cost significantly more than $1000.

So I guess it's either a resonator or gypsy jazz guitar! However, here is my dilemma:

Gypsy jazz guitar:
Pros:

• Very loud
• Warmer soudning than resonator (?)
• Lighter to carry

Cons:

• Not sure if the sound is right for this style; too harsh/agressive?
• Worried about playability - i've heard they are on the difficult side
• The image of a gypsy jazz guitarist - these guitars area heavily associated with Gypsy Jazz, which I dont play!

Model(s) under consideration: Altamira M01; either D-hole or F-hole (is the sound much different?). I've heard good things about the Gitane D500 but I cant find a new one for sale in UK.

Out of interest, does any company still make D-holes with short-scale and 12th fret join (afforable price!)?

Resonator guitar
Pros:

• Even louder
• Durable and weatherproof
• Easier to play (?)

Cons:

• Again, not sure if sound is right for this
• Heavy to carry

Model under consideration: Gretsch Honeydipper (single cone, biscuit)

Any advice appreciated! Thanks!

[AllanAllen]

If you’re concerned about the correct sound for 20’s jazz, get a banjo. It’ll be loud enough too.

[adamrhowe]

If you’re concerned about the correct sound for 20’s jazz, get a banjo. It’ll be loud enough too.

I've played banjo with them for the past 6 months and I want to move back to guitar as the banjo just doesnt produce enough low end (we have no bass instrument).

I've also played guitar a lot longer: 12 years guitar experience vs 7 months banjo. experience

[ThatRhythmMan]

Look at The Loar lineup. You can get a 16” all carved archtop in that price range that does that era’s sound well.

[AllanAllen]

Since you’ve already done banjo, I’d say resonator. They’re cooler than Gypsy guitars.

[adamrhowe]

Look at The Loar lineup. You can get a 16” all carved archtop in that price range that does that era’s sound well.

Thanks for the suggestion, they looking pretty good. Hard to get hold of now though (in the UK anyway). Also, I really don't think they are going to be any louder than my current arch top

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Most guitar buskers use amps.

[ThatRhythmMan]

Thanks for the suggestion, they looking pretty good. Hard to get hold of now though (in the UK anyway). Also, I really don't think they are going to be any louder than my current arch top

What model is your current one?

[adamrhowe]

What model is your current one?

Hoyer Herr Im Frack: solid carved top, not sure about back.

[adamrhowe]

Most guitar buskers use amps.

Tried it. Doesn't give the sound I want, getting the volume right is difficult and it's another heavy thing to carry around. Thank you for the suggestion though!

[John A.]

I think this topic has been brought up before but here it is again!

I have roughly £800 to spend (about $1000) on a loud guitar for busking (either vintage or modern) 20s/30s Jazz in a small ensemble. I've been using an archtop which has been okay but I want more volume so I dont have to hit so hard. I've almost ruled out another archtop as getting one any louder will cost significantly more than $1000.

So I guess it's either a resonator or gypsy jazz guitar! However, here is my dilemma:

Gypsy jazz guitar:
Pros:

• Very loud
• Warmer soudning than resonator (?)
• Lighter to carry

Cons:

• Not sure if the sound is right for this style; too harsh/agressive?
• Worried about playability - i've heard they are on the difficult side
• The image of a gypsy jazz guitarist - these guitars area heavily associated with Gypsy Jazz, which I dont play!

Model(s) under consideration: Altamira M01; either D-hole or F-hole (is the sound much different?). I've heard good things about the Gitane D500 but I cant find a new one for sale in UK.

Out of interest, does any company still make D-holes with short-scale and 12th fret join (afforable price!)?

I've never tried an F-hole GJ guitar, so can't comment. Very generally, oval holes are louder and brighter than D-holes, but both have the characteristic GJ guitar "bark". Regarding playability, that's a function of set-up, scale-length, string gauge, and how well the neck profile fits your hand, same as any other type of guitar. People who play GJ style tend to set them up with high action in order to maximize volume, but they don't have to be set up that way. Also, they're generally played with lighter gauge/lower tension strings. So even with high action they're pretty easy to play. The Gitane D-500 gas a 25.5" scale with a 12th fret neck/body joint (short-scale for GJ guitar, but long for a flattop or arcthop). I have one. I do not play GJ style, and just think of it as another flavor of acoustic guitar.

[adamrhowe]

Very generally, oval holes are louder and brighter than D-holes, but both have the characteristic GJ guitar "bark". Regarding playability, that's a function of set-up, scale-length, string gauge, and how well the neck profile fits your hand, same as any other type of guitar. People who play GJ style tend to set them up with high action in order to maximize volume, but they don't have to be set up that way. Also, they're generally played with lighter gauge/lower tension strings. So even with high action they're pretty easy to play. The Gitane D-500 gas a 25.5" scale with a 12th fret neck/body joint (short-scale for GJ guitar, but long for a flattop or arcthop). I have one. I do not play GJ style, and just think of it as another flavor of acoustic guitar.

Excellent thank you! Maybe I'll carry two bridges with me; one for low action and one for high! And i'll probably stick to 10 gauge strings.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I have roughly £800 to spend (about $1000) on a loud guitar for busking

You left the budget out of your first thread on this, and I (mistakenly, it seems) assumed you wanted a "beater" for the streets.

A wood-bodied resonator is one choice. In your price range, the Gretsches are nice and the Gold Tones are even nicer. A metal guitar is heavy enough to become uncomfortable quickly if you're standing up. I had a brass body Duolian Style O for many years and finally sold it for a steel Tricone National because the O was so uncomfortable to hold after half an hour that I rarely took it out of the house.

You mentioned a gypsy style guitar in your first thread - a Gitane/Sigano or an Altamira would be great. But I agree with the suggestion that an Ovation is also well suited to what you intend. The only thing to watch for with Ovation is that they had a lot of problems over the years with tops separating from the bodies. New ones are well within your budget, so I wouldn't buy a used one.

There's also a new guitar out called the LAVA ME that's pretty interesting and probably very well suited to busking. I haven't played one, so I don't know how good they are - but I think it's worth checking them out.

[ArnoldSchoenberg]

Cons:

• Not sure if the sound is right for this style; too harsh/agressive?
• Worried about playability - i've heard they are on the difficult side
• The image of a gypsy jazz guitarist - these guitars area heavily associated with Gypsy Jazz, which I dont play!

Re the first point, it all depends: short scale or long, petite bouche or D hole (or D hole with "resonator"), solid woods (like Jurgen Volkert uses) or laminate (for most makes). D hole will be mellower than oval hole. But in general Selmer-Mac guitars are comparatively harsh and aggressive. They tend to bark and bite. But this is also what makes them project and cut through the mix so well.

Second point. They aren't any more difficult to play than an archtop. The bridges aren't adjustable of course, but some guitars come with multiple bridges for different heights, or you can buy one to taste and have it fitted. If you want volume, you'll want a high profile bridge and high action, which will obviously be harder to play. But you can also set up a gyspy guitar to be as easy to play as anything else, with a low profile bridge, low action, light strings like Argentine 1510s.

If you're going for acoustic projection, whether archtop or flattop or gypsy pliage-top, you'll also want to hold the guitar on an angle like swing-era cats, so that your body is only touching the sides.

[ArnoldSchoenberg]

I've never tried an F-hole GJ guitar, so can't comment. Very generally, oval holes are louder and brighter than D-holes, but both have the characteristic GJ guitar "bark". Regarding playability, that's a function of set-up, scale-length, string gauge, and how well the neck profile fits your hand, same as any other type of guitar. People who play GJ style tend to set them up with high action in order to maximize volume, but they don't have to be set up that way. Also, they're generally played with lighter gauge/lower tension strings. So even with high action they're pretty easy to play. The Gitane D-500 gas a 25.5" scale with a 12th fret neck/body joint (short-scale for GJ guitar, but long for a flattop or arcthop). I have one. I do not play GJ style, and just think of it as another flavor of acoustic guitar.

You beat me to it. What John said.

[John A.]

Excellent thank you! Maybe I'll carry two bridges with me; one for low action and one for high! And i'll probably stick to 10 gauge strings.

Either that or just shim add/remove shims as needed. Most people put 11's on the short scale and 10's on the longer scale. I have 11's on mine.

[ArnoldSchoenberg]

PS: I've tried Argentine, Galli, La Bella, and John Pearse gypsy-jazz strings. Argentines were the obvious winner for me playability-wise.

[Degranulator]

My loud acoustic is a Republic "Clarksdale" tricone resophonic, bell brass body. Has more tonal nuance and sustain than most single cone resonator guitars. I love that thing. I have played all acoustic trio gigs with upright and drums and have been audible. A lot of good info on the Republic website about different types of reso guitars. I am not affiliated with Republic which is an importer and tweaker of these guitars made by Aiersi in China. I just have one and they are really reasonably priced compared to Nationals. There's other sources too such as Royall (they even have a! twelve string which must be a cannon!) that sell in your price range.
Another good option is a Saga-Gitane 250M Maccaferri type. "M" is for maple sides and back, and it is LOUD for a wood acoustic. Also quite pretty with the quilted maple laminated sides and back.

Some links https://republicguitars.com/pages/tricone
https://royallguitars.com/

[Cunamara]

As for whether a resonator guitar fits the style, listen to Oscar Aleman's playing. He was a contemporary of Django's but played tricone resonator guitars. Argentinian, IIRC, but lived and worked in Paris prior to World War II. His guitars were confiscated on his way out of the European war zone back to Argentina, to be used for scrap for weapons.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

As for whether a resonator guitar fits the style, listen to Oscar Aleman's playing. He was a contemporary of Django's but played tricone resonator guitars. Argentinian, IIRC, but lived and worked in Paris prior to World War II. His guitars were confiscated on his way out of the European war zone back to Argentina, to be used for scrap for weapons.

If only Telecaster were around 10 years earlier. They could have shortened the war by a few years.

[adamrhowe]

If only Telecaster were around 10 years earlier. They could have shortened the war by a few years.

Would hate to be hit over the head with one of those!

[littleknicky]

I used to busk with a band mate frequently, mostly in metro stations but also in a variety of outside settings. We've also played countless acoustic gigs together. I would play on one of my gypsy jazz guitars and he would have his national resonator guitar.

He blew me away every darn time and in every setting. And I pick pretty darn hard. Yeah, maybe I could get a smoother tone, but if you can't be heard, you'll be tensing up and struggling.

I'd go for a resonator guitar over a gypsy jazz guitar for busking, every time, no question.

[daverepair]

I have a number of vintage acoustic archtops, mostly '30's Epiphones. They're pretty loud, especially the 14-1/2" Zenith(walnut bodied). I've played it outdoors with my ensembles, and it cuts well. I also have an Eastman DM1 Selmer copy, and IMO, it's got very good cut and volume too, maybe more than the Epiphones. Oscar Aleman is one of my favorites, and I'm gassing for a tricone, because he sounded so good on his. I'm considering a Republic, as Degranulator describes above(I've been a bit leery so far, only because I've read mix reviews about the quality control). Littlenicky's comments are instructive too...I think there's a budget tricone in my future! Or, maybe sell some stuff, and buy a National wood-bodied tricone: get the tone & volume, but avoid the weight.
The point of all this rambling was to mention the Eastman DM1: great volume and tone, and well made. While I play some GJ type tunes, I feel my DM1 is well suited to acoustic vintage jazz in general, and I think the price is within or close to the OP’s budget.

[Cavalier]

I'll stick with my Ovation 1117 recommendation, specifically the later ones with the Kaman bar neck and the A bracing which gives full mids..Ovation tops were glued on with epoxy and actually aren't know for coming adrift of their bodies, in fact people retopping have a.heck of a time as it involves sharp chisels and very hot heat guns, actual Ovation forums are the place to research this.
My 1624 from 1971 was salvage from the floods of Hurricane Katrina and spent a week floating before recovery, sat wet in the case for a couple weeks then was shipped still wet cross country. I had to replace the output jack and pickup but saved the built to military spec preamp.... The top was stained on one bout from immersion from the inside out but the epoxy held up fine as did the finish. Durable outdoor guitars.... Can be used as emergency paddles.

[Woody Sound]

I've played banjo with them for the past 6 months and I want to move back to guitar as the banjo just doesnt produce enough low end (we have no bass instrument).

I've also played guitar a lot longer: 12 years guitar experience vs 7 months banjo. experience

How about a 6-string banjo?