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<3 Larry Wexer. Honest, easy, clear. I love doing business with him and highly recommend him to anyone. There is no dealer around that packs a guitar as cautiously as Larry.
Retrofret is also amazing. Their prices are high and not everyone there knows what they're talking about but Peter is very forthright. George is a treasure. He's charming and is an excellent guitar player.
I haven't bought any guitars from TR Crandall but I have spent a lot of time in their shop. Both Alex and Tom are knowledgable and very generous with their time. Alex has never pushed a sale on me, but we've sat around for hours just talking about what we've noticed in archtops of different eras.
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02-02-2022 06:36 PM
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Recording a phone call to a desktop computer seems like a rather old-fashioned way of doing it. My phone has an app, and with a touch of an icon I can record anything, and have it automatically uploaded to cloud storage in case the phone dies or is lost. I haven't had a landline phone in years, and I don't know many people who do, other than some businesses. But I agree that recording one way or another is a good idea. I also believe that truth is an absolute defense against libel suits, and that we should out anyone or any business engaging in deceptive practices. If they cheated you, they will cheat others. If they failed to mention cracks, repairs, or other issues, they will continue to do it until forced to reform through loss of business.
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Except when it's not, apparently (unless this case has been overturned since): Federal Court: Truth Is Not a Complete Defense for Private Libel Lawsuits | Insights | Holland & Knight
Originally Posted by sgosnell
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I'm curious. What is that small hole, which appears to hold a metal cylinder, in the first and third photos, below the crack? Or maybe it's something adhered to the side, hard to make out exactly.
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That case only applies to Massachusetts and requires proof of malice. I do not think any jury would find malice in a warning about a guitar dealer who made material non-disclosures. Originally Posted by pcjazz
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Umm.. if not clearly disclosed, that crack represents fraud. Should be a worse penalty than getting you to go through the hassle and risk of a repair. Wouldn't do business with them.
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I'll just add to the others saying this: that's an old crack...it wasn't done in shipping. It's oxidized. Good people at Carter's, but they need to own this one.
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This isn't a hairline they missed, it's wide open cracks that they couldn't possibly miss in an in hand description.
I'm very disappointed in Carter, they're not some fly by night operation and know better than that.
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Honestly, the stuff I see on here disgusts me. How could anyone be so dishonest. I have been selling high end vintage recording equipment for going on 20 years. I couldn't sleep at night if I did this to someone. I literally test everything before packing on video, and I bomb proof it.
Humans are disappointing...
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In my 30 years of buying expensive guitars from US dealers and private sellers I've only been burned once : the clerk at Larkstreet didn't thoroughly check the case that the guitar was shipped in and a little screw left it's marks on the back, lower bout bass side... the player-grade guitar had other known issues ('68 Super-400CESN with several top cracks+changed parts) and these new dents/scratches did not de-value it any further really but it highlighted a spreading problem : emphatic, loyal, knowledgeable, thorough and committed personel is getting more and more difficult to find and keep ... with so much online business going on and the sheer volume of daily shipments going out from the major dealers some of them are simply beyond their capacity and/or ability to monitor every single item - that being the case it makes me wonder why the dealers don't invest in a supervisor of some sort and thereby protecting their business/name. Knowing the ever growing hazards involved with shipping fragile + valuable instruments and the potential legal/financial problems that could come from negligence on their part it would be a wise move. OTOH : letting some highschool kid pack up a guitar that's 2/3/4 grand and more worth is asking for trouble ...
Never had any hassle with private sellers.
The idea of setting up a camera and recording every single step of a deal makes me sad .....
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Side-note: now you can add 1 to that list though technically my current landline is VOIP over fibre broadband internet. Ah, the days when you could sit through a power outage talking on that old landline... ^^ Originally Posted by sgosnell
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Several years ago AT&T switched me to VOIP on my home phone without telling me, while 'upgrading' my internet service. I was not happy when I discovered it, partly because it only worked from one outlet, and I had multiple phones that no longer worked, in addition to the problem of no internet. The agent I spoke to said the internet wouldn't go down, because there was a battery backup. I had just experienced almost 3 weeks without electricity after a hurricane, during which the landline phone still worked. I have since decided that paying so much for such a low probability wasn't worth it, and the cell tower system is likely to be quickly restored if it does go down, so I dropped the home phone entirely. They keep trying to sell me VOIP though. As does the cable company, of which I have never been a customer.
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O, I bought a guitar with a crack in the side that turned out to be one of the best guitars I've ever played. Although, I knew it at the time. I'm glad it's going to work out for you. Congrats on the new old guitar!
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VOIP is included in just about every internet subscription I've seen here, usually with free, unlimited communications to other landlines in "western" destinations. I don't think you can even unselect it (without price reduction) as you can (and we did) with TV. The village got fibre connections a few years back, and now it's impossible to subscribe new ADSL contracts, so we've removed the old phone line. Power outages are a bit too frequent where I live but rarely long enough that the UPS can cover them (if needed I turn the modem and phone off). Longer power cuts are usually the effect of some event that also cuts power to the nearby cell towers (reception in my place is iffy anyways) and they tend to come back up *after* my internet. Originally Posted by sgosnell
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Glad this turned out relatively well. For those commenting that they are old cracks - out of curiosity how can you tell from the photo the age of a crack?
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Is it just me or are these stories of shady shipping experiences becoming more common?
In a related field I've been looking at old German microphones on ebay-kleinanzagen, which is like a free classifieds for all of Germany.
Usually the scam is about Neumann mics, probably because they have such name recognition and can cause an involuntary salivary response. The ad will have great pictures that don't show up in a reverse image search, the text is written as if it is an actual owner, but the price will be about half of what it should.
I've written to a couple of them but they always want to be paid by bank transfer or using PayPal. One was listed as being a couple kilometers away, but when I said I could pick it up they claimed that they were only shipping. Nahhh!
I haven't yet bitten and gotten the hook. The next day I usually get a warning email from Ebay telling me that the seller has been suspended. There are usually about one of these fake ads a day.
Now is a particularly acute time of "buyer beware" I think.
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Hi, O,
My impression from your post is that you are a really decent person. And, it is this decency that can be a fatal flaw when negotiating for something to your benefit. If you received pix of this guitar and there were no cracks in the photos, it's fraud. The fact that they didn't mention any cracks in your conversation/correspondence is fraud. And, for them to try to blame the P.O. as if there was damage from delivery/impact is total dishonesty since, as others have mentioned, the cracks are old and, in no way, appear as a fresh crack--even in an old instrument. The problem with your approach is that by you negotiating with them to a successful resolution(?), you open the door for the next person to be duped in a similar manner. And, since they have agreed to repair the instrument, they have certainly made a profit on the sale since they don't sound like "honest Joes", to me, who would eat a loss. If it were me, I would kill the deal. Losing a guitar in a bad sale is like missing the bus . . . when the last one left, you know there's another just around the corner.
MarineroLast edited by Marinero; 02-04-2022 at 10:31 AM. Reason: punctuation
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New cracks would show yellow wood, of some shade. Those cracks show very dark edges, not the color of newly exposed wood. Originally Posted by Paulie2
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Others will have more detailed explanations. Originally Posted by Paulie2
(1) Amount of dirt and oxidation.
(2) Checking pattern on either side of the crack. In this case it looks like these cracks are ancient. The cracks obviously happened before much of the finish checking, since the crack in the wood interrupts the trajectory of the finish checking lines. If the crack were newer, you'd be able to follow the finish checking along both sides of the crack.
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Here a VOIP line is charged extra, not included in the basic price. Plus I would have to pay for extending the wiring to the room where I want the phone, which is not where the modem/router is. It's just not worth the cost to me. Cell service is important to the carriers, and towers can be brought back up using portable generators if the grid is down. Originally Posted by RJVB
Sorry for hijacking the thread. Probably the first time this has ever been done.
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I agree with the first statement and disagree with the second. Just because I can play it cool in a negotiation doesn't mean I don't know what I'm doing. I have successfully negotiated for everything I want out of this deal and have done so with minimal headache. Here's more context for anyone who is scratching their head. Originally Posted by Marinero
I'm relaxed about this particular instrument for a number of reasons that are unique to the situation. As I mentioned it is a player's grade instrument to begin with so it didn't break the bank. Late 40s epiphones are known to have a number of issues as they mature such as binding deterioration and need of neck resets. If you factor that into the cost of buying one with presumably no cracks, a refret and reset will easily cost you 1/5 of the value of this instrument (probably more since I live in the Bay Area). The neck angle is particularly important for me because I plan to mount a TK smith pickup on this guitar and have found that many other epiphones of the era do not have enough clearance. This one has had a recent neck reset and refret - it plays and sounds great. For a player grade instrument, that's all that matters. It was obviously played a TON, as the finish on the back of the neck is almost completely worn off, and it has been maintained in playable shape. It's not a closet queen and it has a big open voice as a result. And about the cracks, I've got an inspection mirror coming today (stupid of me not to have bought one sooner) and I will confirm the severity of the situation. At a glance, I saw no corresponding crack through the inside of the f hole, but I couldn't get as good a view as I want. Since they are obviously very old then there is a chance they were repaired long ago or they are very stable. In short, I think relative to the situation and all the advantages of this particular instrument, the crack is relatively minor.
Regarding any sort of naïveté that you're implying, playing it cool is not against my interest. It was pretty apparent that the cracks were old. I have video footage of the condition of the UPS box which has zero damage. The guitar case itself has no damage in the corresponding areas. With all the evidence I documented, I have a guaranteed win in case of a credit card chargeback. With that in my back pocket, I have all the leverage in the situation. Why wouldn't I use it this immediately? Because bullshit sales people at bullshit guitar stores are really touchy and irrational. They are reckless and I've been hung up on at CME in the past when I had a similar situation. The result was bad energy, an immediate credit card chargeback, and 3 month long dispute resolution process involving hours of email exchanges with my bank and CME. I don't need that in my life. I see others on the forum get super worked up about damage that paypal or their credit card companies will OBVIOUSLY resolve in their favor. I don't think the Karen approach is prudent or even practical.
If Carter doesn't pull through with their promise, I plan to send the footage and evidence to them and call them out directly. I'll charge back the transaction and they will see the funds disappear from their account and materialize in mine unless they rectify the situation. I haven't given up any leverage in the situation at all.
Finally, when the dust settles I'll let them know I'm aware they tried to pull a fast one and send them my videos and probably this thread so that they are aware of the reputational damage they just cost themselves.
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FYI This transaction is not fraud according to Visa's dispute classification. It's a chargeback for Item Not as Described. If you want to argue with a seller, it helps to know payment network policies rather than reach for moral accusations.
Condition 13.3: Not as Described or Defective Merchandise/Services | Visa
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"The result was bad energy, an immediate credit card chargeback, and 3 month long dispute resolution process involving hours of email exchanges with my bank and CME. I don't need that in my life."
Omphalopsychos
Yes, O, and that's my point. There was no disrespect aimed at you and I didn't use the word "naivete." Your above remarks are evidence of a bad deal. However, if this is a one-of-a-kind classic archtop that is irreplaceable, perhaps the effort was/is justified. Good luck with your purchase.
Marinero
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This could have been a page from a Dale Carnegie book. Well done! Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
In regards to the last sentence. Why bother? It won't change them and you'll just end up staying in that space/zone/vibe for longer than you need to, when you could be paying your new axe. Just do a thread on them here so the Internet can find it although if they have the right guitar at the right price, who's going to research the sellers?
You're likely not the first.Last edited by Archie; 02-04-2022 at 04:44 PM.
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If they made an error in the description, that's one thing. If they were intentionally trying to cheat you, that's another. Then there is moral and ethical considerations which are pretty clear. I get not going through the hassle of punishing a retailer. Who needs that? But it sounds like this went beyond 'item as described'. Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
Last edited by Spook410; 02-04-2022 at 05:23 PM.
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