1991 Gibson Herb Ellis

Dutchbopper · 12-14-2021, 07:29 AM

A quick video about my latest acquisition. I have always wanted a 165! I actually speak in this vid.

DB

**grahambop** · 12-14-2021, 07:48 AM

Very nice! Couldn’t wait until christmas, eh?

Does it sound a bit different with only one pup? No idea whether that affects it or not.

Dutchbopper · 12-14-2021, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by grahambop

Very nice! Couldn’t wait until christmas, eh?

Does it sound a bit different with only one pup? No idea whether that affects it or not.

Yes, it sounds different, though the sound is definitely still very much in the ES 175 school. This guitar has a much more resonant top, my ES 175 sounds a bit drier. Also, the pick up on the ES 165 is not a classic 57. I will post a vid with single lines later, maybe even next to my 175. It’s hard to explain in words.

Acoustically, the 165 sounds much louder and better than my ES 175. Amplified, these differences are smaller.

DB

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**floatingpickup** · 12-14-2021, 08:11 AM

I had one for several years. It was a fantastic guitar. I played it on a lot of gigs and it always sounded just right to me. It had a slightly chunky neck, which felt great. It was every bit as good as my vintage 175’s.
Keith

**JFranck** · 12-14-2021, 08:31 AM

Congratulations, nice guitar !
I definitely prefer these to those with the floating BJB.
A mate has one and he told me that the pickup was a 490, like on some Les Pauls . Very similar but a bit hotter when we compared to a early 2000s 175, although he lowered it as much as possible.

Dutchbopper · 12-14-2021, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by floatingpickup

I had one for several years. It was a fantastic guitar. I played it on a lot of gigs and it always sounded just right to me. It had a slightly chunky neck, which felt great. It was every bit as good as my vintage 175’s.
Keith

Mine has that chunky neck too. My 175 has the normal neck so I still have to get used to it a bit. Why did they cjoose for a chunkier neck profile on the Herb Ellis and not for the regular 175 profile? Did Herb’s old guitar have that profile too?

DB

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Dutchbopper · 12-14-2021, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by JFranck

Congratulations, nice guitar !
I definitely prefer these to those with the floating BJB.
A mate has one and he told me that the pickup was a 490, like on some Les Pauls . Very similar but a bit hotter when we compared to a early 2000s 175, although he lowered it as much as possible.

Thanks. Is that the only difference with the classic 57? That it is hotter?

DB

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**JFranck** · 12-14-2021, 10:44 AM

[QUOTE=Dutchbopper;1164959]Thanks. Is that the only difference with the classic 57? That it is hotter?

DB

yes, anyway that's what he told me!

**Archie** · 12-14-2021, 10:45 AM

Nice one dutch.

I recently bought the same guitar and was surprised by the acoustic sound. Mine came with round wound strings on which made it even louder and more detailed than flats would.

The notes have a nice pop to them when the guitar is plugged in. Ppl seem to complain about the pickup but so far I don't have a problem with it. Not used it too much so I might discover the issues around it; we'll see.

**grahambop** · 12-14-2021, 11:18 AM

I don’t care about your shiny new guitar. Santa is bringing me some nice socks.

**mr. beaumont** · 12-14-2021, 11:26 AM

I think the set pickup 165 is one of the best values in jazz guitars out there. Nice!

**John A.** · 12-14-2021, 11:54 AM

Congrats! 165's are really nice guitars. The 490 is a little hotter and (maybe) has a slightly different mid-range character, but I think you should be able to get your typical thunky sound out of one. I did have one in a LP, but that was a 24 fret guitar, so it did not have the typical neck pup sound. But I've also tried them in several other LP's and a couple of 165's, and they all sounded great IMO. I don't hear a whole lot of difference between one PAF style pickup and another, though, so grains of salt on that. I definitely lean toward single pickup archtops. I like having that extra bit of acoustic volume.

**vinnyv1k** · 12-14-2021, 12:11 PM

Yes 1991 was the 1st year for the 165. Gibson also gave Herb a 91 too.
Herb’s original 1953 175 had a chunky neck but was feather light.
I got to fondle it once between sets of a show.

Congrats Dick ! Gibson rules. You have a nice Gibby harem.

Chuck here on the forum ( that rhythm man ) owns Herb’s 53.

**PDeville** · 12-14-2021, 12:15 PM

The 490 pickup sounds rich and very "vintage" to me as if you are playing into a Tweed amp, or something similar. I like it !!

**grahambop** · 12-14-2021, 12:20 PM

As it happens I saw Herb in 1991 at the Tenor Clef in London (with Peter Ind on bass). Here are some photos of that gig by Brian O’Connor.

1991 Gibson Herb Ellis-c8588825-13ad-4cc6-9480-d5fe6d06a760-jpeg

1991 Gibson Herb Ellis-c8588825-13ad-4cc6-9480-d5fe6d06a760-jpeg

**Stringswinger** · 12-14-2021, 12:24 PM

Congrats DB! I have found that single pickup Gibson electric archtops whether carved or laminate are more "acoustic" and also are more prone to feedback at high volume. There are pros and cons when compared to two pickup models.

The ES-165 is a fine guitar and IMO, 90's Gibson archtops, while a bit different, are up there with the best vintage examples for playing jazz guitar.

I have a Les Paul Studio that has the 490R and frankly, the difference in tone compared to a 57 classic is beyond my hearing ability. Perhaps it has a bit more midrange? A 490 R works just fine for my taste.

May she inspire your playing for many years to come!

**MarkRhodes** · 12-14-2021, 12:53 PM

Congratulations, DB.
Lovely guitar.
The 165 is the jazz guitar I most want. I'm playing a Tele and writing / recording non-jazz songs these days, so a 165 is not on my immediate horizon but it's out there in the distance...

Herb Ellis is my favorite jazz guitarist. This is one my favorite performances of his, from the late '50s. And what a band: Roy Eldridge, Stan Getz, Ray Brown, and Stan Levey. (This whole album is first rate.)

**garybaldy** · 12-14-2021, 12:59 PM

I have a 490r and 490t in a 24 fret SGJ 2013 model. They are possibly my favourite humbuckers.

**Fred Archtop** · 12-14-2021, 02:43 PM

Great instrument DB! I've always loved the zig-zag tailpiece. Congrats for your new acquisition.

Best and take care.

**wintermoon** · 12-14-2021, 03:18 PM

extra points if you can name the tune he played

**Stringswinger** · 12-14-2021, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by wintermoon

extra points if you can name the tune he played

Even more points if you can name the movie that gave this tune standard status.

**Herbie** · 12-14-2021, 04:19 PM

Congrats Dutch! ES-165 is all one needs!

I had a 2010 model with a floater and in the end sold it to get a 1PU 1959VOS. If I had bought a PAF version of the ES-165 I would have saved a lot of money… in theory…

I have thought too that 490R would be hotter and more middy than Classic 57, but now I can’t figure why would it be. Both have Alnico II magnets and DCR of both is measured around 7,7 kOhm which means about equal amount of winding.

Play it in good health!

EDIT: Year of the gtr model.