Why didn't the Howard Roberts guitar design prevail?

[joman50]

I had one once and sold it for the feedback issues on higher volume gigs. Oval hole guitars give a cross between an archtop and flattop sound and you're probably not going to be playing a flattop on a high volume gig, too much bottom end. I do have a custom made oval hole archtop for home playing.

I had an Electra knock off. It was very prone to feedback, but it had a nicesound. I wish I still had it but that was (gulp) over 40 years ago.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Here's Howard's infamous screen test with Ann-Margret.

I missed this thread the first time around. Here's a picture of that session showing HR very well. I think I got it from an old issue of LIfe Magazine.



I saved this because I thought I saw a small bass bout cutaway and later learned that this is the famous "Black Guitar" that started life as a 150 that he got from Herb Ellis IIRC. I cropped, enlarged and sharpened him with that guitar, but it's pushing the limits of technology available to me and I can't get it any sharper or clearer.



Here's another shot of it (with different pickup and tailpiece) that I saved from an article about the guitar in Vintage Guitar about 25 years ago. He apparently ripped it apart and modified it many times, including thinning the body depth to about 2 3/4". I think this pic shows it with the P90 that he added to replace the CC

[Cunamara]

The Black Guitar has quite a history, much of a puzzling one to me. I'm not sure why anyone would modify a guitar that extensively rather than just getting one that's better suited to purpose. But it obviously worked for Howard as he recorded thousands of tracks with that instrument. I've wondered if that guitar the inspiration for the bass side cutaway on the Pat Metheny model from Ibanez (and his original prototype from them also had that thumb cutaway).

[stevo58]

Information about The Black Guitar:

HOWARD ROBERTS: "The Black Guitar"

for those who haven’t already seen it.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Information about The Black Guitar:

HOWARD ROBERTS: "The Black Guitar"

for those who haven’t already seen it.

Thx! This article doesn’t mention the back. IIRC, the ES150 came with a flat back. But when HR had the body thinned, I think he had an arched back fitted. Whether this was originally a back plate or a top plate appears not to be known.

[joman50]

Hot in her day! Wow With Howard being Howard of course!
I wonder if he's wearing that blue suit he was infamous for.

[BiffJones]

Hello HR fans. Will an ES-175 plush case comfortably accommodate a mid-70s Howard Roberts Custom?

Pardon me if this question has been addressed in previous discussions. Thanks.

[Aiq]

I love my 1976 lawsuit Howard. In service of disclosure I bought it from the original owner who bought it in ‘81.

It had been case kept and the pick guard gassed off damaging the metal parts. I replaced the tuners , tailpiece, and PU with a Lollar Johnny Smith HB. Bob Scoby did nut, refret, and complete rewire.

[Mick-7]

I love my 1976 lawsuit Howard. In service of disclosure I bought it from the original owner who bought it in ‘81.

What is the brand name on the headstock? - can't make it out.

[Aiq]

What is the brand name on the headstock? - can't make it out.

Speedfire. From what turned up in the research the branding followed the country of sale.

Has the Ibanez serial numbering system, built in June ‘76, Ibanez Gold Star tuners (damaged when the pick guard gassed off).

[Bob_Ross]

why didn't his full sized hollowbody with a round hole take off in the market better?

I suspect someone's already made this point in the years since OP, but fwiw, when I first encountered the Gibson Howard Roberts model (early 70s?) it was strikingly obvious why it didn't appeal to me, and so probably also not to many other jazz guitarists:

An archtop hollowbody with f holes is the archetypal "jazz guitar"

An archtop hollowbody with a round(-ish) hole is an abomination!

[Sleeko]

Here's Howard's infamous screen test with Ann-Margret.

She was like a female Elvis lol

[Mick-7]

An archtop hollowbody with a round(-ish) hole is an abomination!

Obviously Howard didn't think so and neither does this guy -- Meditation

She was like a female Elvis lol

Yes, which is why she co-starred in his movies.

[Sam Sherry]

An archtop hollowbody with a round(-ish) hole is an abomination!

I understand that you're either joking or fishing for clicks, but . . .

Obviously Howard didn't think so and neither does this guy -- Meditation

Nor does Gray Sargent:

The trio's in at 9:00 if you insist on skipping nine minutes of premium solo jazz guitar.
(Dagnab, what a sound!)

Nor did Jimmy D'Aquisto:



Nor did Bob Benedetto:

[m_d]

Why that design didn't have more success I couldn't say any better than others have here, but that model holds a special place for me as some of the best jazz guitar I ever heard in my life (both musically and tonally) was from an Ibanez Howard Roberts, unplugged.

[John A.]

I suspect the answer is just that in general players prefer the sound of set-in pickups over floaters, due to their having a bit more mid range punch and being less prone to feedback, which limits the field to f-holes. That and the vagaries of fashion and expectations of what a “jazz guitar” is supposed to look like.

FWIW, some years back I was somewhat fixated on the idea of finding a guitar that could be both a good acoustic guitar and a good “jazz guitar”. To that end, I spent a good bit of time trying a Howard Roberts, and it just didn’t do it for me as either. Maybe others have similar reactions. That said, some people sound great with them.

[Djangology]

[DRS]

Here's Howard's infamous screen test with Ann-Margret.

Where are the musicians?

[Hammertone]

There's a handful of these out there.

[Easy2grasp]

My first HR was a blonde '79 Gibson Artist model. I liked it and kept it for over 20 years until it was stolen. I replaced it with a sunburst '77 Gibson HR Custom model. I liked it even better, the neck just had a great feel. I sold it after a few years to buy an ES-175 I developed GAS for. Then I went down that rabbit hole and became an ES-175 addict, owning 8 at one point. Eventually I came full circle and bought a blonde 1967 Epiphone HR Standard which I fancied while selling off half of the 175's. At that point I felt that I was justified in buying a sunburst 1965 Epi HR Standard because the blonde Epiphone HR was a very pleasing guitar. I was surprised that I enjoyed the sunburst '65 even more than the blonde which is up for sale now to keep up the appearance for my wife that I am downsizing (Carter Vintage - Epiphone Howard Roberts Model 1967, Blonde | Carter Vintage Guitar). In the meantime I came across a very minty 1974 Gibson HR model in the rare cherry red that was only available that year. I was not happy with the sound, feel, or weight. Compared to the Epiphone models, it seemed too heavy now and lacked brightness or something. I sold it. There is something intangible about the 1967 sunburst Epiphone HR. It has been my go-to guitar for awhile now and makes a good couch guitar acoustically after my wife goes to bed (I am a night owl). It has more acoustic presence than my Gibson L-4C, for instance.
My point is, if you are considering buying a HR type guitar you owe it to yourself to check out the carved top Epiphone models from the 1965-67 years. They are the bomb.

[Marty Grass]

Hello HR fans. Will an ES-175 plush case comfortably accommodate a mid-70s Howard Roberts Custom?

Pardon me if this question has been addressed in previous discussions. Thanks.

I could be wrong, but I think the L-4 case fits the Howard Roberts. The Custom and Artist models have the same dimensions.

[Aiq]

This one fits mine perfectly. I have the original case but it is a bit flimsy.

17 Inch Archtop Guitar Case | CRW620 | Crossrock

[Woody Sound]

Hot in her day!

Hot in her day??? When was she NOT!

[m_d]

[frabarmus]

Probabily also because the pick would fall into the sound-hole more easily...