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Big laughing smiley.
Originally Posted by Marcel_A
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06-28-2021 09:01 AM
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That's funny! The toggle switch is put there so that it can be flipped on the fly easily. Placement there made a more complicated, expensive design. I've learned to deal with it but am happy with the Fender and 335 switches. I don't see a situation where it's important to shave off 5 milliseconds to change pickups. Originally Posted by Woody Sound
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Don't underestimate the preference for firmer string response.
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This. There’s something very L5 about a maple neck and longer scale length to create a snappier response. Originally Posted by Greentone
The intro to this video captures some of that (imagine it with heavier gauge strings and warmer EQ):
Compare with the sound of the same player on an L5:
Ive personally never heard an Les Paul sound like that. I think the shorter scale and thick mahogany body keep it from snapping and sounding as bright, but that’s what makes it great for other tones.
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I have a nice Les Paul and a custom Tele. I like the Les Paul tone but like others have said, it's ass heavy and wants to slide backwards off my leg. The Tele sits perfectly balanced. Full disclosure - my Tele has a 1 3/4 nut and a SD minibucker in the neck so it has a lot of the tele issues solved.
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"...or do I?"
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I have no problem playing a Lester seated (using a strap). My 1975 Les Paul Custom was my main gigging guitar for many years but eventually, it's 11 pound weight got to be too much. I replaced it with a Custom shop 57 Black beauty, but that guitar's 10 pound weight also became too much. Today, I use a sub 8 pound (barely) Les Paul Studio for many of my outdoor gigs (I find that a solid body guitar holds tune better than a hollow body in changing weather conditions). Here I am using the Lester on a solo jazz guitar gig (with a Henriksen Blu amplifier):
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The McCarty team, when working on what was to be the Les Paul model, had sustain uppermost in mind. They settled on the slab-sawn Hard Maple cap/quarter-sawn Mahogany body combination which gave them the 22 second decay they were shooting for. That's a lot of sustain. That sort of note approximates a pure sine wave, which will drain the minimum energy from the vibrating string. Sine waves are beautiful on an oscilloscope, but a bit boring. Skillful vibrato will prolong sustain and introduce grater complexity to the waveform, which makes it more interesting (just like violinists or singers). McCarty's team was working on behalf of a long-established and historically innovative company. "Jazz" i.e. Big Band players were the target market. Profit and prestige were dual aims. Les Paul's involvement is a whole 'nother chapter, of which his well-earned fame as a recording artist played no small part.
Leo Fender and Doc Kaufman were aiming to make a guitar that could be manufactured economically and rapidly, be easy and inexpensive to repair, sound good (a broad goal vs the specific 22sec goal) and sell at a competitive price point, with Country/Western players being the primary target market. Market Presence and hence Profit were the main impetus.
So why the ironic switcheroo? One of Fate's little jokes, I suppose....
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Bolt on neck is FOR ME uncomfortable. Originally Posted by Runepune
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The only guy I've ever heard make it work for jazz is Clint Strong. I'm sure there are others, but that's been my experience.
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The telecaster is just a very comfortable and practical guitar, also cheap and very road worthy. The neck pickup is as great a jazz sound as you can get with a solid body, very articulate and expressive. I suspect for most players the neck of a les paul is a bit cramped and lacks definition for jazz. It 's a guitar made for rock (or blues rock).
Also the 25'5 is much more common as a scale in the archtop world, 335s and 175s being the exceptions..
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I think that players who start with the darker tones are more likely to move to lighter tones than the reverse.
That may even apply to history. At one time, the HB dominated and was associated with a classic jazz guitar sound. Since it turned out nobody could do it better than Wes, why not try something different? The brighter tones may seem more modern.
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I'm no archtop expert, but I would tend to think that the 24.75" scale (or at least non-25.5") is more predominant in this category (?).
Also, I've never considered Les Paul (the man) a jazz player.
I'll return to my own planet now.
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I'll agree. Les didn't have a "jazz"tone, but he did have his own sound. You either like it or you don't. I 've heard some heavenly notes from him (not jazz tones) and some others made me cringe. He wasn't trying to be a jazz player, more of a "pop" artist and innovator, and he succeeded at that very well.
Not a hard core jazz player, but back in the day, he could rip it up!
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Don't forget that, amplification had a lot to do with all these players' tone. I thought GB sounded better on the LP in a Bassman, than he did on the Super 400. Looks like he was plugged into a Dual Showman, but one can't be sure from that viewing angle. However, what I heard, I heard.
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I idolized Al Dimeola in high school, and all our jazz band guitarists played LPs, so it should have been natural for me to go that direction. However…when it came time to buy a jazz guitar, I was more enthralled with Pat Metheny and his toothbrush-enhanced 175. Plus starting to get into Joe Pass.
I wouldn’t mind an LP at all, in fact have been thinking about making one from a kit. They do have more sustain though and require more attention to tame that and get a good jazz tone.
The Tele on the other hand doesn’t have sustain “for days”, and with the neck pickup and the switch in the “rhythm” position gets a PERFECT jazz tone.
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When I was a young boy I got to see and hear Les Paul and Mary Ford at the music sideshow that went with the State Fair and Livestock Show. I sure could not figure out how Les was doing those overdubs with his "Paulverizer" on his guitar. But they sure seemed AMAZING ! Jeff Beck at the Iridium with the female singer comes pretty close on How High The Moon.
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Jeff Beck How High The Moon Les Paul Style With Imelda Mae
Last edited by steve burchfield; 06-28-2021 at 09:29 PM. Reason: label
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Thanks for reminding me of Imelda. Her solo work is amazing. Back to your regularly scheduled broadcast after this.
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Funny I never thought if Al DiMeola as a Jazz Guitarist even though he played with other Jazz musicians. In fact other than Spain I've never heard him play over any swing standards.
On the other hand John McGlaughlin I've heard play swing tunes. Differently but it swung hard!
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This conversation is giving me gas for either one!
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The answers I would suggest have already been mentioned. My experience is that I can and have taken my tele(s) anywhere and I never worry. It is a beast. The note articulation is useful for chords and with a tiny roll off, of the treble it sounds warm. That is especially true when the PU hight is set for a little less bite, however it loses some of the bell tones, when that is done. The mid selector switch does not get that ring that is so cool: especially with artificial harmonics.
With my LPs they are way more effected by temperature and environment. Sometimes it feels like I have to readjust the neck just because I breathed on it. There is a beautiful roundness with the HBs but at the same time the chords can lose some articulation. That depends a lot on the PUs. Lower wind PUs can allow for better chord but then I lose the thicker blues lead lines.
Here is the interesting thing my PRS(s) kinda live in between the two different approaches to solid body guitar, but I can not think of anybody who plays PRS for non-fusion Jazz.
My thought is, that beyond all the symbolism that is placed on a type of guitar, it does not really matter. If you hand me a X guitar I am going to mess with the amp and change my playing approach to get as close to the sound I have in my head. Some guitars make it easy, others make it a fight. It is like how an actor always seems the same, no matter what film. I wonder what would happen if some one showed up with a flying V at a jazz gig. It would look so wrong, but if it sounded good, I bet I would forget all about it.
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Di Meola doesn't want to be thought of as a jazz guitarist. I read an interview with him in GP magazine where he said jazz sucked, because it wasn't as creative as his music. I couldn't believe what an asshat the guy is. I could tell you a story about one of his attempts to play jazz, but I've been sworn to secrecy about the story by someone involved in it. Maybe he'd tell you about it himself, if you paid him 15K to have him cook you an Italian dinner at his house in NJ. Originally Posted by jads57
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