Ibanez 2461 (Johnny Smith Lawsuit Guitar)

[rpguitar]

Of course he's not always gentle, but scroll on over to 2:55 and watch him play those blazing single note lines before he starts with the aggressive chords. He's so light on the strings! The only truly hard picked notes are accents at the end of phrases. Also I think he does have quite low action since there's a lot of (appealing) fret slap going on. The recording sounds about 80% acoustic. WOW.

[BigMikeinNJ]

Well this is my last comment on this particular aspect of the thread... I am fortunate to be able to afford a few Gibsons, unassailably top-notch ones at that, and I still own and play 2 Ibanez guitars. They are perfectly functional guitars and make no excuses. The above comment is elitist and ignorant.

BTW, having a disclaimer in your sig that you are prone to being socially awkward doesn't give you the right to be pardoned or ignored for doing it. I can imagine if I tried that at work: "Warning, Roger's emails may appear arrogant, impolite, or dismissive of your intelligence; please do not read if you object to such things." Hah! As if.

Thank you for so elegantly taking this numbskull to task...Having owned the Ibanez Johnny Smith guitar and numerous GB10s they are among some of my all time favorite guitars I've owned. And I TOO have had many fine Gibsons: Super 400s, Byrdlands, Les Pauls, 330s, 335s, ES175s...

[JSanta]

I'm just going to go ahead and put this up. I will add that I do not believe these to be forgeries or fakes as been tossed around a few times. Obviously the design is not their own, but Ibanez put their name on the headstock, unlike the actual forgeries being produced today. Ibanez today continues to put out exceptional instruments. I would even go as far to say that Ibanez helps the jazz guitar community. I come from playing rock and metal, and my first archtop was an Ibanez because of how much I liked their other guitars, and I know a lot of other people just like me have done the same.

[hannu]

This is from the 1978 catalog, FA700 is hand carved spruce top, FA300 laminated spruce.

[gianluca]

...or the LeGrand model that replaced the JS model...

I owned a LeGrand for a couple of months but I let it go soon: miles and miles far from the original JS tone

[Philco]

Seeing we are on the subject Og Gibson JS's:
I've now seen a couple with no screws in the pup. Instead there is a tortoise shell insert.
Anyone understand what that's about?
Here are a couple.

[balthazar]

Good old George !

[gianluca]

... Also I think he does have quite low action since there's a lot of (appealing) fret slap going on.

hi roger
about george's action, maybe the dry tone in benny goodman's clip comes from a quite high action.
while, yes, on the solo guitar clip the action looks really low. and you may like that when he plays the gb10 but when he takes the classical guitar with that low action, he has one of the wrost classical guitar tone I never heard.

[rpguitar]

Phil, the earliest JS pups were apparently like that.

From "Gibson Electrics, The Classic Years " by A.R. Duchossoir:
"The early Smiths usually feature a pickup with non-adjustable polepieces, since a small piece of tortoise plastic is inserted between the top of the coil and the pickup cover. This plastic was removed in early 1962 to make the poles fully adjustable."

[rpguitar]

...he has one of the worst classical guitar tone I ever heard.

I agree with that totally! I had seen that part of the video a while ago, and wondered how George could possibly not hear how bad he sounded on nylon strings.

[ChuckCorbis]

[lawson-stone]

If that is the case, then he is PAID to endorse Ibanez....but a fake is a fake..'nuff said'.



You can take my opinion as you like. All I was trying to say, is that the Ibanez Lawsuit copy of the L5 is a fake.
I can piss on any fake guitars as much as a I like, This is MY OPINION oK? I would never have a fake guitar
in my house because that is what it is...a fake because they haven't got the wherewithall to design
a good guitar themselves.

Yes, the $1800 fake copy can co-exist in the markertplace until Gibson win their lawsuit, then it will be just another
fake guitar...practically worthless on the resale market.

"Fake" implies the desire to deceive. I do not consider the various "clones" to be fakes because they have their own brand, Ibanez, Aria, Epiphone, etc. They are not claiming to be Gibsons. They are duplicating a design.

I own two very fine clones of the L5ces, an Aria Pro II PE180 and an Epiphone Elitist Broadway. Neither is an L5ces, but both are splendid guitars, well worth the price, superbly made, wonderful players, with outstanding tone that is in the family of tone that we associate with the L5ces.

There is nothing fake about these guitars. They are finely made and worthy of anyone's playing.

[hotpepper01]

This great clip was one of the reason for my search for a 2461. Some very fine playing !!
Funny thing is that to me the neck seems more of a FA300 type neck with the pointy fretboard end near the pickup, it is not having the long 2461 headstock and shows L5 type block inlays instead of the split paralellogram JS inlays. But who cares.
The Ibanez JS is a great guitar. Mine dates from 77 and is a blond double.

[rio]

Thanks for this link. Tom was my Transcription and Analysis teacher in college and was my roommate’s guitar teacher. He was such a good guy and an amazing player. Still very sad that he’s gone but it is nice to see his music still being shared. That is also a very nice guitar - I never saw him play it in person as he usually had a black Godin nylon string from what I remember but he sounds great on that Ibanez and I don’t think I would be able to tell the difference between it and a Gibson in a blind test.


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[Greentone]

When I first became interested in Aria and Ibanez archtops, 1972-1974, Veneman's was selling them in the Washington, DC, area. The guitars were highly detailed copies of Gibson models...until the cease and desist letter.

I grew up around musicians and Gibson archtops. I rated the Ibanez and Aria guitars as _top shelf_.

Still do.

[gianluca]

Hi,
just bought a’77 Ibanez JS: what a great guitar!
Anyone has one?

[rrbasic]

I think we need photos in order to appreciate your "new" guitar.

[Crm114]

I had the early version of that guitar with the “lawsuit headstock” / It had terrific pick ups on it they were probably pretty much what Ibanez used on the GB 10. But it’s not a real Johnny smith because it is a laminated guitar. But that being said if you play loud and live somewhere then that’s a good guitar for you.
George Benson used the later version when he toured with McCoy Tyner. In fact that guitar the George used is for sale - it’s a private sale but it’s for sale if you’re a George Benson collector.

[Dutchbopper]

Hi,
just bought a’77 Ibanez JS: what a great guitar!
Anyone has one?

I had the same guitar. Same year even. Mine was sunburst and had two floaters.

DB

[Crm114]

[gianluca]

He doesn’t play bad: is that man a forum member?
I have a couple of things to ask him…

[icr]

[gianluca]

I really like this guitar.
Here a quick recording of some line…

[yebdox]

Really nice playing, and especially beautiful tone! What’s your signal chain? Makes me wish I still had mine, but I don’t recall it ever sounding THAT nice!

[Cunamara]

Why do you think that some 1959 Les Paul standards are approaching $300K today?
Its te tone..the tone..

It's the fantasy of the tone. Some of those guitars are sublime, some of them suck, a lot of them are OK. But on the Internet seller's market, they all go for the price of the sublime because nobody can try before they buy. And people who've spent $300K on a guitar are going to convince themselves that it's the most wonderful sounding thing they've ever heard, even if it isn't.