Gibson ES-175D from 1990 and its peculiarities

[Doctor Jeff]

I think my son's Les Paul has Tim Shaw pickups could that be? It sounds good though and works for jazz for sure.

Going from memory here, but I thought Gibson used Tim Shaw’s in the LP and archtops in the 80’s, then moved on to Burstbuckers, Classic 57’s and other modifications by the 90’s…

[Jimmy Mack]

The Tim Shaw h/bers seem to be very popular with LP players. They are not bad pickups, but in my L5, they weren't giving me a sweet jazz tone, one that I've heard many many times. They emphasized a mid-range tone that I could not dial out on my amps. I adjusted their heights, the pole pieces, and I turned the neck p/up around 180 degrees. I had the Princeton Reverb's Treble up to 8 to get the brightness I like (which is not a lot) and even then, certain frequencies stood out more than others. Different strings didn't matter.
The trick to great tone is to find the right pickups, strings and bridge for the individual guitar. And then adjust. Not all guitars are the same, even within the same model!
So after pot changes and p/up changes on the L5, I have a tone I can happily live with. I can now get great tone on the same amp whether I have the Treble on "0" or on "6". I then adjust the Bass or Mid pots. Or...I can twiddle the pots on the guitar.

The p/ups I went with are the Seth Lovers. Also, a SD '59 sounded great in the neck position. 500K pots.

[Herbie]

Oh man, congrats for Your great instrument! I got a 1984 some months ago and after installing an ebony bridge and a refret I have learned to love it.

When I got it I was annoyed because it is not as loud as my other ES175. But now after some playing I don’t think the difference anymore.

It has stock Shaw pu’s. And 300 kohm vol pots, 500 kohm tone pots. At first I thought I’ll change the pots to 500 kohm but then I read somewhere that Tim Shaw designed his pu’s to work with 300 kohm vol pots. So I’ll keep everything stock – even the chrome covers!

If Your guitar has a aftermarket vol pot the pickups might be anything. But 490 series don’t have that pat. no. stamps, they have Gibson USA stamp in them.

In fact Your pickups look like Shaws after the date numbers has weared off. (I once did that accidentally for one Shaw I had…) Only puzzling thing is the DCR reading, it is too high for a standard Shaw.

If You are interested in it, I suggest to join in Mylespaul forum, there is often ”mystery humbucker” threads. Be prepared to open the covers to check the magnet and are the spacers maple or white plastic etc!

If the pickups sound good, everything is ok. If not, I would make it as period correct as possible: wait for decent priced set of Shaws or ’90s Classic 57s (yes, some say that they are not anymore what they used to be).

Going from memory here, but I thought Gibson used Tim Shaw’s in the LP and archtops in the 80’s, then moved on to Burstbuckers, Classic 57’s and other modifications by the 90’s…

Classic 57s came in about 1990. Burstbuckers came a decade after, about in 2000. The history of the 490 series is unknown to me, but I assume they came by the end of the 1980s. Hotter PAFs with 4 cables to make them splittable.

[ThatRhythmMan]

The Tim Shaw h/bers seem to be very popular with LP players. They are not bad pickups, but in my L5, they weren't giving me a sweet jazz tone, one that I've heard many many times. They emphasized a mid-range tone that I could not dial out on my amps. I adjusted their heights, the pole pieces, and I turned the neck p/up around 180 degrees. I had the Princeton Reverb's Treble up to 8 to get the brightness I like (which is not a lot) and even then, certain frequencies stood out more than others. Different strings didn't matter.
The trick to great tone is to find the right pickups, strings and bridge for the individual guitar. And then adjust. Not all guitars are the same, even within the same model!
So after pot changes and p/up changes on the L5, I have a tone I can happily live with. I can now get great tone on the same amp whether I have the Treble on "0" or on "6". I then adjust the Bass or Mid pots. Or...I can twiddle the pots on the guitar.

The p/ups I went with are the Seth Lovers. Also, a SD '59 sounded great in the neck position. 500K pots.

I guess I need to be more explicit. I was fishing to see if you still had them and if you would let them go.

[ThatRhythmMan]

Oh man, congrats for Your great instrument! I got a 1984 some months ago and after installing an ebony bridge and a refret I have learned to love it.

When I got it I was annoyed because it is not as loud as my other ES175. But now after some playing I don’t think the difference anymore.

It has stock Shaw pu’s. And 300 kohm vol pots, 500 kohm tone pots. At first I thought I’ll change the pots to 500 kohm but then I read somewhere that Tim Shaw designed his pu’s to work with 300 kohm vol pots. So I’ll keep everything stock – even the chrome covers!

If Your guitar has a aftermarket vol pot the pickups might be anything. But 490 series don’t have that pat. no. stamps, they have Gibson USA stamp in them.

In fact Your pickups look like Shaws after the date numbers has weared off. (I once did that accidentally for one Shaw I had…) Only puzzling thing is the DCR reading, it is too high for a standard Shaw.

If You are interested in it, I suggest to join in Mylespaul forum, there is often ”mystery humbucker” threads. Be prepared to open the covers to check the magnet and are the spacers maple or white plastic etc!

If the pickups sound good, everything is ok. If not, I would make it as period correct as possible: wait for decent priced set of Shaws or ’90s Classic 57s (yes, some say that they are not anymore what they used to be).



Classic 57s came in about 1990. Burstbuckers came a decade after, about in 2000. The history of the 490 series is unknown to me, but I assume they came by the end of the 1980s. Hotter PAFs with 4 cables to make them splittable.

Don’t forget the short lived Bill Lawrence designed “The Original” pickups with the circuit board on the underside, circa 1989.

[Rocket Roll]

Oh man, congrats for Your great instrument!

Thank you! I like it a lot

In fact Your pickups look like Shaws after the date numbers has weared off. (I once did that accidentally for one Shaw I had…) Only puzzling thing is the DCR reading, it is too high for a standard Shaw.

I tend to go with the "490 theory" based on the year and the readings. I've found eBay/Reverb pictures of another 1990's (perhaps a couple of months younger) ES-175D and the pickups look the same, with the same "4" written over the back cover. The only difference - back covers have more holes (classic "Gibson transitioning" minor difference). Here's one photo:

[Gitfiddler]

Here's some additional info on ES-175's. Ignore the suggested price range data...unless you have a Wayback Machine.

The Gibson ES-175 - History, Buying Tips & Price Guide

Chronology of the Gibson ES-175 Electric Guitar >> Vintage Guitar and Bass

[Herbie]

Thank you! I like it a lot

I tend to go with the "490 theory" based on the year and the readings. I've found eBay/Reverb pictures of another 1990's (perhaps a couple of months younger) ES-175D and the pickups look the same, with the same "4" written over the back cover. The only difference - back covers have more holes (classic "Gibson transitioning" minor difference). Here's one photo:

Looks a bit familiar, here’s mine 1984 Shaw pups. Beside the ink code they have different bottom screws. But close!

[Gitfiddler]

The Patent number is not the best way to determine which pickups are in an ES-175.

The original Patent number 2,737,842 was issued to Les Paul in 1956, but used by Gibson on many of their proprietary parts as well as their pickups since the early days.

US Patent 2,737,842: Combined Bridge and Tailpiece for Stringed Instruments >> Vintage Guitar and Bass

GIBSON | PATENTS | 2,737,842

US Patent 2,737,842

Combined Bridge and Tailpiece for Stringed Instruments


The patent below, filed in 1952 and granted in 1956 described a bridge/tailpiece devised by Lester Polfuss (Les Paul's real name) especially for use on the then new Les Paul model guitar. The number is more usually associated with (but legally unrelated to) Gibson's humbucking pickup - these units were regularly marked with patent number 2,737,842. This was actually an attempt to prevent competitors from researching Gibson's new invention - the humbucker patent was actually assigned number 2,896,491.