How would you describe this tone?

[garybaldy]

In the never ending quest ( for me anyway) to find a great jazz tone - I have only budget archtops, I seem to hear a hint of what I would call a slightly 'honky/chirpy' quality to the tone on all of them, particularly when playing notes fretted fairly high up on the middle strings. It's a tone I don't much like.
I found a Youtube clip which I believe demonstrates this tone to the extreme (all over the board) and it's really not to my taste. It is the tone the girl has. Please note, I am in no way being critical of the clip - I think the playing is great.
How would you describe this tone? Do you like it? Do you think it needs EQing? I had an Attila Zoller floater that, to me, had that sound and I changed it for a low priced Ibanez which is a lot better. Thanks.

[Tal_175]

I agree, she is an awesome player.

It sounds to me like there is very little fundamental and a lot of overtones in the tone with a sharp attack. Like almost bridge pickup-y (but she is using the neck). It could be the pick she is using. Very pointy and stiff but thin pick can sound this way.

[citizenk74]

Sounds to me like there is some light chorus going on. It's a pretty tone. It may be just the ticket for the very talented young lady in larger ensembles.

[Marcel_A]

What can i say tone-wise? It was probably recorded with a phone.
The playing is great!

[Spook410]

From what can be gleaned from a poor recording I thought the guitars sounded clear but lifeless and dead. There was no resonance or chime. Just an electrified chunk of glued together laminate further constrained by the limitations of a basic guitar speaker with no help from the amp section. Not interesting or pleasant. Though the rhythm guitar was very even sounding. That being said, the playing was very nice and seemed to overcome the bland tones coming from the instruments.

[Litterick]

Phone tone.

[lawson-stone]

Despite the phone issue, I think it's actually a tone sort of like what many players seek. I often use the term "boxy" or even "reedy" to describe it. I hear several players on Jazzradio.com's "Guitar jazz" channel who have a tone like that, except well recorded of course.

[garybaldy]

Despite the phone issue, I think it's actually a tone sort of like what many players seek. I often use the term "boxy" or even "reedy" to describe it. I hear several players on Jazzradio.com's "Guitar jazz" channel who have a tone like that, except well recorded of course.

Thanks.
To me regardless of how it was recorded there is a clear difference between the tone of the two guitars. I prefer the 335 type. Some may say that's because (may be) the 335 has a centre block but I've heard fully hollow archtops with a similar tone.
I agree with your description of boxy and reedy and that some people like it. Do you think, though, the boxiness can be dialed out. Cheers.

[John A.]

I don't know how this guitar is actually constructed, but it's the characteristic sound of x-braced construction + brightly voiced pickup. It's essentially the opposite of the mid-range "thunk" of guitars built along the lines of Gibson laminated guitars. Let's call it knuht.

John

[lawson-stone]

Thanks.
To me regardless of how it was recorded there is a clear difference between the tone of the two guitars. I prefer the 335 type. Some may say that's because (may be) the 335 has a centre block but I've heard fully hollow archtops with a similar tone.
I agree with your description of boxy and reedy and that some people like it. Do you think, though, the boxiness can be dialed out. Cheers.

A lot of this is also due to the amp. I have right beside my desk a Fender Princeton Reverb, a Tonemaster Twin Reverb, a Polytone Minibrute II, and a DVMark Micro 50 with a 10" cabinet. The tone varies significantly among these 4 amps with the same guitar. If I were in that store, I'd want to play that guitar through a different amp. Also, it's just a humbucking pickup, two pots, and a capacitor making that tone, and there is lots there one could swap out and play with if other considerations commended this specific guitar.

[lawson-stone]

Here is a better recording of a demo of that guitar.

[Spook410]

I don't know how this guitar is actually constructed, but it's the characteristic sound of x-braced construction + brightly voiced pickup. It's essentially the opposite of the mid-range "thunk" of guitars built along the lines of Gibson laminated guitars. Let's call it knuht.

John

While X braced guitars can be anywhere in the tonal spectrum the ones I have based on Benedetto's approach aren't dull sounding and tend to be pretty dynamic. Of course, mine are set up for a 'zing' instead of a 'plink'.

[sgosnell]

It sounds like a bridge pickup because that's what is in use. Notice the selector switch pointing down. A bridge pickup is always going to sound trebly, regardless of the amp, strings, guitar, or anything else.

[Franz 1997]

Do you think, though, the boxiness can be dialed out. Cheers.

I'd call the tone nasal; as someone said, a "phone tone". I don't like it. But I guess the key question is, as above, can it be dialled out? I'd say not; a good amp with sophisticated tone controls ( as in eg Acoustic Image, Hendriksen, Evans) can do a lot to mitigate it, but I don't think you can ever get rid of it.

In fairness , it's difficult to tell from the vid; she might have been plugged into a SS Marshall amp with bass set at zero and midrange at max, for all we know; that would make even an L5 sound bad. At least, to me.

As a general rule, and with exceptions no doubt, cheaper hollow guitars will tend to sound more mid-rangey in a nasal way ( whereas eg a 175 or 335 sounds midrangey in a good way IMO)

[ccroft]

I think there's a few things conspiring here to produce a tone that I don't enjoy. Amp, pickup selection and EQ mainly, but also look where she's picking compared to the guy.

Like Lawson, I have to think that I could get a more pleasing-to-me tone out of that guitar. It might not be thru the same amp. (is it marshall?)

[Peter C]

Just an observation: the phone's mic is obviously picking up a lot more of the full hollow body's acoustic tone than the semi's.

[christianm77]

EQ pedal m8. Boss GE7 is fine.

Also notice where she is picking. You get a warmer sound over the neck pickup. I think she likes the cut, but I don’t think the guitar helps in this case. Force of habit maybe; She plays different guitars normally?

[lawson-stone]

It sounds like a bridge pickup because that's what is in use. Notice the selector switch pointing down. A bridge pickup is always going to sound trebly, regardless of the amp, strings, guitar, or anything else.

The switch is not pointing down but "forward" indicating neck pickup. That sound does seem to me like a neck pickup, not brassy or twangy enough for a bridge pu.

[rpjazzguitar]

I hear the tone as having a component of "thud".

1. Go to neck pickup

2. See if dialing down the treble helps.

3. Turn the amp up and pick more softly. If that helps, redo the setup, you're fretting out.

4. If those were flats, go to rounds.

5. Add a little reverb.

6. It reminds me just a bit of the sound of my D'angelico EXDC, which could sound a little lifeless in the middle of the neck. I think that was the construction of the guitar rather than anything adjustable. To be fair, it sounded terrific in the upper register, thick, warm and clear.

[garybaldy]

Here is a better recording of a demo of that guitar.

Nice tone.

[garybaldy]

It sounds like a bridge pickup because that's what is in use. Notice the selector switch pointing down. A bridge pickup is always going to sound trebly, regardless of the amp, strings, guitar, or anything else.

To me it's not got quite the picky harshness of a bridge pu. Could be both together which can do some detrimental cancellation of certain frequencies. Again to me some guitars are affected by it more than others.

[garybaldy]

I'd call the tone nasal; as someone said, a "phone tone". I don't like it. But I guess the key question is, as above, can it be dialled out? I'd say not; a good amp with sophisticated tone controls ( as in eg Acoustic Image, Hendriksen, Evans) can do a lot to mitigate it, but I don't think you can ever get rid of it.

In fairness , it's difficult to tell from the vid; she might have been plugged into a SS Marshall amp with bass set at zero and midrange at max, for all we know; that would make even an L5 sound bad. At least, to me.

As a general rule, and with exceptions no doubt, cheaper hollow guitars will tend to sound more mid-rangey in a nasal way ( whereas eg a 175 or 335 sounds midrangey in a good way IMO)

Yes, there is a nasal quality. Interesting regarding good and bad midrange. What's the determining factor? An Eq pedal as suggested is possibly a good idea.

[garybaldy]

Just an observation: the phone's mic is obviously picking up a lot more of the full hollow body's acoustic tone than the semi's.

I sometimes find that off putting when playing plugged in at home - too much acoustic sound.

[lawson-stone]

Yes, there is a nasal quality. Interesting regarding good and bad midrange. What's the determining factor? An Eq pedal as suggested is possibly a good idea.

My own thought-I would not buy a guitar that "needed" an EQ pedal just so as not to sound awful. The guitar and a solid amp ought to sound excellent before it's taken home. Any adjustments should be fine-tuning, not rehab.

[garybaldy]

I'd call the tone nasal; as someone said, a "phone tone". I don't like it.

As a general rule, and with exceptions no doubt, cheaper hollow guitars will tend to sound more mid-rangey in a nasal way ( whereas eg a 175 or 335 sounds midrangey in a good way IMO)

As it happens I have just got my latest acquisition set up and playable. It's a 175 cheap copy which had a slightly off centre tailpiece, huge relief and horrendous strings. The tailpiece has been adjusted (albeit slightly more adjustment may be carried out it due course - don't ask!!). The neck is now pretty much straight and it has new Chrome 12s. It is constructed with a sound post and no bracing. I think it is one of those exceptions! As well as having a great feel, good Intonation and excellent tuning stability, it has none of that nasal, boxy honk. I also have a budget 125 copy and again with sound post and no bracing which is almost as good. My other 2 archtops which do exhibit a slight boxiness are my EEJP and an EER copy by Fenix. These two are fully hollow, have parallel bracing, kerfing and no post. Not what I would have expected. Cheers.