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Might also consider Milkman The Amp 50W and a Raezer's Edge 10.
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11-01-2020 03:58 PM
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NO no- the tweed is just a covering. It's the same circuit. And the 12" speaker will definitely breakup later than the stock C10R in the "regular" Princeton.
Originally Posted by christianm77
Marcel: the tweed PRRI with the 12" speaker would be great. You could also try a Deluxe reverb, but... as I said, the Princetons sound a little sweeter to me... maybe it's the bright cap on the DRRI's volume control? The PRRI does not have it.
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Sounds like a good shout then. 12” speaker is definitely a plus.
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Absolutely.
I tried a few 10 inch speakers for a while specifically for home use and it's not bad or anything, but a 12 inch sounds much better.
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Wow. I was not familiar with these. That sounds great!! Originally Posted by Cunamara
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A Fender Deluxe reverb is a great amp, suitable for almost all music styles and types of gigs, powerful and portable enough, so it's a great option. Ideally you could eventually have two amps, one tube and one smaller solid state for portability. Something like the Dv Mark little jazz, or the Bugera Ac-60 (acoustic amp, Aer clone, in case you play acoustic or nylon as well). They are both cheap and get excellent results.
At your age, it's nice to have great, classic gear, because it does inspire, but don't really get hung up with it. Practice, play, listen... you know how it goes. Best of luck!
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Personally I prefer 10” speakers for ensemble work (stays out of the way of double bass better) but most prefer 12” Originally Posted by Marcel_A
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for small light , bang for buck
Little Jazz
for medium and fairly luggable
with a 12”
Tonemaster Delux
fender should make a
Tonemaster Princeton
anyone know if they’re planning one ?
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Christian, just my 2 cents on the Egnaters - I have both a Tweaker combo and a Rebel 30 head/112 cab. Both are cool and different in their own way. With the Rebel, you can adjust both or either channel from 1 watt to 30 watts. You can also mix the tubes - 6V6 and EL84 Power Tubes - to your desired taste. I originally bought the Rebel because it has XLR Direct Record Output with Play and Silent Recording Mode, which worked great running the signal to the board and using the cab as a monitor. Lots of tonal options available. Originally Posted by christianm77
The Tweaker, OTOH, has it's own set of flavor profiles...you have 3 different tone stack options - American (Fender-ish), British or Vox AC tones. Tight and bright switches also help shape the tone as well as the "Classic/Modern voicings. Personally, I have tended to lean toward the "American" and "Classic" tone when using this amp, especially for jazz stuff.
No, not affiliated with Egnater, but I think they do make cool amps. And, of course, YMMV!
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I would play the crap out of a 5kg Princeton, but I would be concerned that I'd need to swap to heavier speaker to get enough headroom. Originally Posted by pingu
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I would be interesting to see if Fender tried to approximate the response of the current C10R (I hope not!) or the legendary vintage C10N. Because a TM Princeton would be awesome... I'd even use the attenuator feature... but it's GOT to have more headroom (no speaker breakup and bass flub) than the PRRI with the C10R. We've discussed it... the C10R is what holds the PRRI back, and why most people think it compares poorly to a vintage model. Originally Posted by christianm77
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Some people seem to like their amps to fart. I can't get my head around it TBH.
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My 78 PR has a C10Q. I'm not sure if it's just that or also differences in the amp itself, but mine is appreciably louder than a friend's BF reissue (which has a C10R). Originally Posted by ruger9
John
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I reckon all of it will be the speaker. I changed the speaker on my amp and got like 50% more headroom right away.
My working theory is that Fender see the Princeton more as a recording amp, and prioritise speaker breakup over headroom, which is not unreasonable given it is the most recorded amp of all time, or whatever.
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I use the LJ (one 8" speaker) and, if I need more volume, a JC55 (two 8" speakers).
I am an ensemble player. I don't need, or prefer, a lot of low end in my sound. Maybe if I was playing solo guitar I'd want a bigger speaker.
Frankly, I'm not even sure of that. I have a tube amp with a 12" speaker and it doesn't sound all that different from the LJ.
The Bud and Blu have an even smaller speaker and a lot of people swear by them.
I dont know what to make of speaker size.
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The lj has a lot of bottom end. It’s booming more than my current koch with a 12 inch speaker. Earlier i confused 8 inch with 10 inch: i tried a few 8 inch speakers and like the 12 inch better.
BTW, i don't really 'get' the 'getting in the way of a double bass' or '10 inch works better in an ensemble'. Is this a jazz specific thing? Never heard of it or had trouble playing in an ensemble with a 12 inch speaker. Neither do pro players i listen to.Last edited by Marcel_A; 11-04-2020 at 02:51 AM.
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When I hear guitar players in ensembles, especially archtop players, I often hear too much low end from the guitar, which can make mud with the bass and left hand of the kb. There are also players who don't seem to have that problem. Certainly, the top pros have figured it out. Originally Posted by Marcel_A
Once I was standing next to a jazz guitarist (who was on the cover of GP) while we were listening to a combo with an archtop player. I thought the guitar was making low frequency mud. The top pro disagreed with me. But, that's the way I hear it.
There are also players who EQ the guitar towards the highs and/or comp in a higher register. I prefer my EQ skewed higher. It's a matter of taste.Last edited by rpjazzguitar; 11-04-2020 at 04:13 AM.
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To me there are two kinds of guitarplayers:
1. i setup my guitar at home and don't care what the rest of the world is doing
2. i setup my guitar while in a band-situation and adjust accordingly.
The second group should never have trouble being in the way of others. It's allmost allways about small adjustments. Mostly concerning mid frequenties.
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I suspect that the guitar sounded okay at the player's ears. But, not so good in the audience. But, then again, the pro liked that sound better than I did. Originally Posted by Marcel_A
I recall a story about Hiram Bullock, told by another guitarist. Hiram plugged in and adjusted his gear. The other guitarist thought his tone sound awful. Then, the band started playing and the exact same tone was perfect.
Another technical point. As you know, the guitar is only an octave above the bass. So, if you play the low G in a Gmaj7 at the third fret, that's the bassist's open G string, G2. His instrument goes from E1 to around F4. So, that G2 is somewhere around the middle of his range. Some bassists spend a lot of time below that and some don't. The acoustic bass, it seems to me, has a lot of higher overtones too.
So, when a guitarist plays the low E and low A strings, he's not that far from the bass's register. Some players avoid those strings while comping. Freddie Green didn't avoid them, but he had the perfect tone for it and the perfect coordination with the bass.
Most of the groups I play in have keys. So, now you have the bass and kb's left hand, both potentially overlapping with the guitarist's range. There's a potential for mud. One way to avoid it is to play a guitar tone that sits more isolated in the mix. Think Stratocaster single coil clean sound vs. boomy archtop. That's not to say a Strat is a better choice than an archtop, but it's just to communicate the issue I'm describing.
Good technique and a good sounding instrument can overcome these difficulties beautifully. But, there's also a path using a different instrument sound. It comes down to taste.
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Exactly my point. Lot's of rock players sound bad if you single them out. But a bit of experience playing in a band (and maybe even more recording a band) should learn any player that it is not about your favourite tone, but what it does to the total picture. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
I understand that there can be overlap between bass, KB and guitar, but it it's not something you cannot fix. And it works the other way around aswell: a bassplayer should know his place! It's for a reason we call it the BASSplayer.
Last edited by Marcel_A; 11-04-2020 at 07:29 AM.
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I do both, and have 2 rigs for their different applications. But truth be told, that's really more about convenience than tone: it's so much nicer to leave my "gig rig" at the rehearsal space, and not continuously break down/set-up/etc my home rig for gig use. Definitely use more bass (knob) at home than with the band. Originally Posted by Marcel_A
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A Quilter demo by our esteemed forum member Tim Lerch, playing various guitars straight into the amp:
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When I joined my current band - five brass and full rhythm - after the first gig the bass player said „great, now we have three bass players“. Since then I tried to stay out of their way. Took a long time. Originally Posted by Marcel_A
I understand that there can be overlap between bass, KB and guitar, but it it's not something you cannot fix. And it works the other way around aswell: a bassplayer should know his place! It's for a reason we call it the BASSplayer.
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I hope you called him a smartass.
Or like we say in holland: basjebijdehand.
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In the practice room, there's no bassist. So, it's natural to gravitate towards chords that have a low note on the E or A string. In a group with bass, piano and drum, that low note has to be handled with care. It might be better to play the chords in a higher register, focusing on the top 4 strings. I don't know about other people, but I have not practiced comping higher as much as lower.
Similarly, it probably feels better to practice with a more balanced tone -- meaning more lows than you might choose in a band context.
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