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Inasmuch as the playability of the guitar may change your playing, would that influence the sound? After all your hands make a very big part of the sound
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09-01-2020 07:26 AM
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Hi, Peter,
Originally Posted by Peter C
I would be careful in using Wiki for any substantiation of facts for anything. However, Paella, can be made with any combination of meats or seafood available. There is no such thing as a Paella standard for ingredients of meats. And, you could find as many recipes for Paella as you could for Pasta. Such diverse elements as turtle, rabbit, duck, snails, quail, are used regularly in Paella as well as the standard Chorizo, mussels, clams, arroz amarillo, langostinos, pork, chicken, etc., etc. The important factor is, of course, the quality of the sofrito as the crispy edge to this fine dish and a good quality saffron. I have eaten Spanish, Cuban, Puerto Rican, and Mexican versions of this fine dish. Paella is made from whatever local fresh ingredients or leftovers are available. Here's an interesting article that defines Paella's Roman and Arabic roots.
Enjoy . . . Marinero
P.S. I'll take your advice, Lawson!
The History of Paella - The Kitchen Project
www.kitchenproject.com › history › Paella
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Well Marinero, thanks so much for the heads-up on the potentially temerarious inaccuracies in Wikipedia. FYI, the article you linked to contains 2 major flaws: onion is certainly not sine qua non in authentic paella and there was a big hoo-ha in this country not long ago when the otherwise reputable English chef Jamie Oliver made one with chorizo. This doesn't detract in any way from the, I'm sure, tasty rice-based offerings you mention and enjoy.
Anyway, apologies for the foray into things culinary; through an old Laney tube combo, my Strat sounded very Strat-ty and a Heritage 150, very Les Paul-y. The 3 guitars I currently play all sound very distinct through a Roland Cube. Don't have much more to contribute, sorry.
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You'd think he'd run out of kittens, but no ... Originally Posted by christianm77
John
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I really enjoy threads like this.....I get reminded of things that happen with me as well as maybe some good advice. The thing that really continues to amuse me is that no matter how we evaluate, control, judge, attenuate, discuss, opinion-ate, turn up, turn down, sound check, don't sound check, big stage, tiny stage, etc etc..... one thing will happen. The weather changes [hotter, colder, rains, whatever] and all of our planning goes right back to zero again. Mother Nature is the bane of good e.q.
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"Mother Nature is the bane of good e.q."
THAT needs to be on a t shirt
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It's in the works ! Originally Posted by christianm77
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As a sort of addendum to the topic: been experimenting over here with amps, looking for sounds and sweet spots and such. And while I love and appreciate amps that let the guitar be itself, I've found that occasionally, there are certain amp/guitar combos that are just magical. Everything sounds better. Everything works. It's just right.
It was a les paul into a marshall that led to this, of all things. Pretty obvious combination, but something just clicked when I started fiddling with the volume and tone knobs in a way that had never happened before. All kinds of cleans and textures to suddenly be had that somehow never existed with other guitar/amp combos.
Then I tried it into a blues breaker. That's the sound. Right guitar, right amp. That's what it's supposed to sound like. And I don't even like that 60s British blues thing. But I love that amp, and something special happens when you plug a les paul into it.
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For clean jazz it seems to me the speaker (and cab) are more important than the amp. Look at the Toob... and I recently put a Jensen 8” ceramic in a cheap mono pa and it sound great
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Interesting exchange!
In my experience the guitar brings out certain qualities of an amp whilst retaining its own' soul'. In the same way different amps add different colours to guitars. Whatever I plug my Gretsch Electromatic Jet into it retains its inherent qualities that are always there, even if the amp is adjusted; ditto for my ES-175D, strat and Ibanez AS200. Equally if I plug them into a Princeton there is a common scooped quality that screams "Princeton".
Conclusion? It's nor "either/or", but "both" - or at least to my ears.
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Magical combinations: my ES-345 with my Music Man RD-65 pushing 1-12" and 1-15" JBLs; my '69 Les Paul Custom and my '64 Vibroverb; my '04ES-175 and my DRRI; my '66 Custom Telecaster and my wide-panel Tweed Deluxe; and my custom-made '86 PRS and my '69 Marshall Plexi half-stack. Originally Posted by feet
There are others, but there are only so many hours in a day.
I will say, everything sounds good through my DRRI!
Last edited by citizenk74; 09-04-2020 at 12:07 PM. Reason: orthography
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So, for those with technological experience vastly superior to my limited knowledge of amplifiers--is there an amplifier which has the most potential neutrality and does not have a distinct personality or sound? I play through a Fender piano amplifier for both Classical and Jazz/Bossa(Electric) and was told when I purchased it that it had the greatest potential neutrality. Play live . . . Marinero
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There was an ad some years ago for Roland with Al D about how important the amp is as the guitar component for sound. He was using them at that time. Can't find it now. Originally Posted by Woody Sound
I have become obsessed with amps more than guitars. I currently own around 10-ish, everything from tubey things to squeaky clean frfr. Gotta get rid of some before I die
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Isn’t it obvious that the amp is crucial?
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My original question was not about it being "crucial" but rather, how it's crucial. Some amps seem to have a heavy layer of shaping that makes almost all guitars played through it sound more similar. Other amps seem to bring out the differences among various guitars. Originally Posted by Marcel_A
My original question was whether anyone else had observed this. Of course, it's obvious, them amp has a huge role in the sound produced. I'd simply observed, anecdotally, that some amps are "lumpers" and other amps are "splitters." Generally, it sounds like most others have not really found this to be the case.
I do know if I want the special features of particular guitars I have to come out I tend to play either through the Fender Tone Master Twin Reverb or the Polytone Minibrute II. If I'm illustrating in clips how different guitars sound different, I do not use the Princeton Reverb Reissue. They all sound very similar though that amp.
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Current pairings. While the 175 through the acoustic amp is surprisingly good that’s not where my ears want it.
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I think you’re missing out on tone and volume. A keyboard amp is made to amplify signals of 200mV, but your guitar does something like 2mV. With transistors the extra drawback is that they sound better when running closer to the max. You’d do well to put an overdrive pedal that has 20dB amplification in it. overdrives come in many tonal colours. Originally Posted by Marinero
That neutrality may stop you from cutting through the mix. Meaning you find yourself wanting for volume in a band while it’s just the lack of tonal character that’s withholding you.
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There's a way in which I find my thinking going far afield from these discussions.
No argument that some amps sound better than others in a given set of conditions.
That said, there are a lot of factors which influence how satisfied a player is likely to be that go beyond the amp choice.
For a particular amp you can ask the following questions:
1. Does it sound good at all the volumes I need to play at?
2. Do I get my sound from it no matter what room I'm playing in? (The answer is no, but how does it compare to other amps on this factor?).
3. Does the sound spread nicely, or do you have sit in a particular spot? Related: can the other band members hear it if it's pointing at the audience?
4. If I'm not getting the sound I want, does it have the adjustments I need?
5. Does it sound good in all the styles I need to play?
And none of that relates to price, reliability, weight, cost to repair etc.
My solution is to always play with a pedalboard. My sound is in the pedalboard, and I can get close to it even through a kb amp. My LJ sounds better to me than that, but I can usually get a good enough approximation to forget about the amp and just play.
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Well, Originally Posted by Eck
Does this pass, Peter?
Play live . . . and eat Paella . . . Marinero
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Are you intentionally trying to undermine this thread? You might not think the question matters, but I am interested in hearing informed opinions, not scrolling past recipes or pictures of your presumably amazing cooking. Originally Posted by Marinero
I respectfully ask you to stop doing this. It seems like you're almost making a point of belittling the topic.
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Yes. I would get a good quality active PA speaker. If you are using a DPA style mic or a nice pickup system with a high end preamp this might be the best option. Originally Posted by Marinero
Depending on how you amplify your guitars that might not be what you are looking for. For instance AER’s are often said to be transparent but I would say they are quite specific in the way they sound, and mostly really really good at making Nylon string guitars with piezo pickups sound great. They are really good at this.
With an under saddle pickup you can sound very plasticky through a PA... an AER does a lot to smooth out the unpleasant elements. I don’t know how it does this. Probably compression, EQ and nice sounding reverb. The amp also has a mic channel that singers love for a dynamic mic, but again I wouldn’t call ‘neutral.’
I also like the way they sound with electric guitars, for clean tones.
A lot depends on your pickup system. AERs generally sound good with most pickup choices even without a preamp.
Preamps are getting very advanced for acoustic guitar, and can get a lot from a basic pickup choice. For instance AER with a Fishman undersaddle (ie cheap) piezo pickup and an Audio Sprockets Tonedexter is pretty much as close as I’ve got to a mic’ed sound with a pickup. And that is pretty heavily processed.Last edited by christianm77; 09-07-2020 at 11:26 AM.
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Hi, LS, Originally Posted by lawson-stone
I am very interested in this thread and C has just replied, in great detail, to one of my questions and his advice has been excellent and very informative. For the record, I have no desire to undermine this thread but, at times, thread drift happens in blogs as it does in face to face conversations--its a natural consequence of real human interaction. My apologies to any or all who have been offended. However, I cannot promise I can change my practice of decades of free flowing intellectual discourse with sentient beings and replace it with studied, mechanical, and rigidly controlled conversations whenever you are one of the responders. I hope I have not offended you deeply with my remarks but . . . I do make one hell of a Paella.
Play live and eat Paella . . . Marinero del Mar
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It depends on what sort of pickup you're using. With piezos, an amp designed for amplifying acoustic guitar, e.g., AER Compact 60, Fishman Loudbox, Roland AC-60. With a mic, a good mixer and a PA (though an acoustic amp is more practical). With a magnetic pickup, if you're hoping to get it to sound like an acoustic guitar, that's not gonna happen, and picking an amp is about picking a color. There's no such thing as "neutral" with magnetic pickups. There's just "l like it" or "I don't like it." Originally Posted by Marinero
John
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I agree wholeheartedly. My first guitar lesson was in 1961. I currently own: an ES345TDC-SV; a L5C, and an ES175D. All three sound essentially the same played through my Mini Brute II, Twin Reverb and Princeton Reverb (re-issue). Originally Posted by Stringswinger
At this point in my guitar playing (53 years since I started), no matter the guitar or amp I choose, it sounds pretty damn close (with there being a certain difference between acoustic and electric to be sure). Tone is truly in the fingers. Getting any more guitars or amps is merely an exercise in treating myself to a new toy these days. And adding to a beautiful art collection.
I also play a Gretsch Country Gentleman and Tennessee Rose which do sound more "trebly" when played through the two Fenders and both have a deeper tone through the Polytone.
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I'm with Feet and Citizen74. No matter how much I try to analyze and understand the sound differences amp to amp, guitar to guitar, it's the surprises that make amp experimentation so compelling. Those perfect combinations.
One such: The '60 Guild X50 through an Evans SE 150, 1x15 SS. Something about that amp - the depth, size of the sound and warmth - totally suits that Franz p/u.
I could look for such an amp to match up with P-90s or Franz p/us, based on previous experience with amps that seem to enhance those p/us. I might even find great choices. Even so, it's always a surprise, serendipity. And therein is the reason for my longtime amp appreciation. Each amp seems to reward different guitars, add its own flavor to the sound. Finding a really good amp can bring out new sounds in the guitars I already have. Win, win.
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