11 gauge strings.....WOW

[ChuckCorbis]

It's interesting that lighter tension strings are much more common in piano construction over the last 30 years. They do sound great and require less "stretch tuning" because the partials are closer to desired tuning without compensation especially on smaller uprights.

[entresz]

I have two guitars with bigsbys and they definitely need at least .12s to hold tune properly. Providing the nut and bridge are working properly (not letting strings snag/catch), the tuning stability is generally pretty good i've found. I went through a phase of using a .13 set and swapping the B and E for a .18 and .14 respectively, but I found that the tone wasn't what I was after. It lacked the high end sweetness that I was used to and replaced it with a very strong fundemental.... fat sounding, but also slightly nasal...

I've found on my archtops with pickups on them.. they all tend to inherantly sound fairly 'fat' so I don't need extra heavy string to get a warm tone. 12s or 13s do the job perfectly. I have found on my Gretsch Synchromatic 400 .13s give a great balance between a good electric sound with the pickup, and a great acoustic unamplified sound for when I'm playing big band guitar.

On my Hofner Senator I used .11s... I use that guitar for gypsy jazz, and the lightweight construction of the guitar seems to really work well for that sound. It doesn't need huge strings to get lots of volume.

[SuperFour00]

String gauge is relative. Sure, the diameter, winding, tension and scale is a known set of quantities, but left hand size, flexibility, strength and technique is variable. Also, the right hand picking technique and even forearm strength vary indefinitely. Also, the guitar set up and string height come into play. What feels velvety smooth to one player is ungainly and stiff to another. Each player needs to adapt string gauge to their technique and physiology, and to their respective instruments.

[ChuckCorbis]

String gauge is relative. Sure, the diameter, winding, tension and scale is a known set of quantities, but left hand size, flexibility, strength and technique is variable. Also, the right hand picking technique and even forearm strength vary indefinitely. Also, the guitar set up and string height come into play. What feels velvety smooth to one player is ungainly and stiff to another. Each player needs to adapt string gauge to their technique and physiology, and to their respective instruments.

I think what you said above is what jazz guitarists are experiencing. Being aware of the differences in string measure and tension is very important. There is significant difference between a 25.5 and 24.75 string scale instrument. For example, when it's said that Pat Martino uses heavy gauge 15s. That's not the whole story at all. He uses 15s with a light bottom 4 on a 24.75 inch scale instrument. It's a known set of quantities yeah, but not really an understood set of quantities. IMO, it's not a moot discussion because we have physical variables that differ from player to player. It's an important piece of one's sound and feel on the instrument. Albeit, only one piece of the puzzle.

[Keira Witherkay]

i'm lazy in my old age.... i string everything from archtops to semi's to my beloved tele with 10's just the archtops and semi's i use flatwound 10's and roundwound on the tele .... if i want a fatter tone i turn up the gain on my amp and add bass .... but as i said i'm lazy and don't wanna fight my strings

[SuperFour00]

I think what you said above is what jazz guitarists are experiencing. Being aware of the differences in string measure and tension is very important. There is significant difference between a 25.5 and 24.75 string scale instrument. For example, when it's said that Pat Martino uses heavy gauge 15s. That's not the whole story at all. He uses 15s with a light bottom 4 on a 24.75 inch scale instrument. It's a known set of quantities yeah, but not really an understood set of quantities. IMO, it's not a moot discussion because we have physical variables that differ from player to player. It's an important piece of one's sound and feel on the instrument. Albeit, only one piece of the puzzle.

I said "relative", not "moot".

[ChuckCorbis]

I said "relative", not "moot".

Cool. My word. My bad. I just think it's very relative then.

[Klatu]

i'm lazy in my old age.... i string everything from archtops to semi's to my beloved tele with 10's just the archtops and semi's i use flatwound 10's and roundwound on the tele .... if i want a fatter tone i turn up the gain on my amp and add bass .... but as i said i'm lazy and don't wanna fight my strings

Do you play acoustic? If so, what gauge do you choose?

[Klatu]

In my case, heavy strings only make a real difference when I'm playing acoustic guitars or amplified guitars that rely heavily on their acoustic tones. My electrics sound fine with 10 gauge and up considering I can adjust for any thinning of sound by rolling off the tone knob.

Some rockers have been shocked when I tell them I string with 13s only to find that my instruments are far more comfortable and easy to play than they had anticipated. A good setup should make just about any string choice pleasant to handle.

[oldane]

i'm lazy in my old age.... i string everything from archtops to semi's to my beloved tele with 10's just the archtops and semi's i use flatwound 10's and roundwound on the tele .... if i want a fatter tone i turn up the gain on my amp and add bass .... but as i said i'm lazy and don't wanna fight my strings

Heavy gauge strings may not be that much of a physical challence as many believe. At present and for the foreseeble future I will have LaBella 15-56 flatwounds on my Painter (LaBella send me replacement for those dubious sets they made 1-2 years ago, and I now have 13 usable sets in the drawer). Now, the heavy gauge is not mandatory for me, but I use them because they sound good, and they are very balanced across the set with regards to tone and volume - maybe the most balanced set I have tried. Especially, the thickness of the plain strings (15 and 19) tames the brightness so they are more in line tone wise with the wound strings. And they last almost for ever. With heavy gauge strings one can lower the action quite a bit (provided the frets and setup is OK), so the fretting stiffness is not that much higher as compared to say a 12 or 13 set. I'm and old fart - one or two decades older than you - I have small hands, I'm not particular muscular but I have no problems with them. But of course, if you want to bend that 19 B string 1½ step, chances are you'll get blood on your guitar. ;-)

[PTChristopher2]

>>> A good setup should make just about any string choice pleasant to handle.

Say what???

>>> Heavy gauge strings may not be that much of a physical challence as many believe.

I say surely this cannot be so!!!!

Or maybe,...

If the heavier strings swing less of an arc to produce the same actual energy (and they do),

then these heavier strings could be set up with much lower action and much less relief (and they can).

So unless you bend notes quite a bit, or want a combination of long sustain and easy feedback at very high volumes on a solid-body, then just maybe a heavier string set with a set up optimizing the features of heavy strings could result in an easy-playing guitar.

This is my attempt at a troll post.

In my opinion.

Chris

[PTChristopher2]

Almost not totally unrelated:

In an earlier thread someone mentioned lighter piano strings requiring less stretch tuning than heavier piano strings.

I have never actually measured or experienced this, but in principle it should be true since stretch tuning is done to mitigate the effects of inharmonicity from string stiffness. And lighter strings are less stiff.

Back to guitars:

So in principle, a lighter guitar string will have upper harmonics that are slightly more in tune with the fundamental note of the string vs. a heavier guitar string. Less inharmonicity. Arguably this is a benefit, but inharmonicity is not described as a problem on guitars even by the most etherial suggestible myth-mongers - at least in my memory.

Chris

[oldane]

If the heavier strings swing less of an arc to produce the same actual energy (and they do),

then these heavier strings could be set up with much lower action and much less relief (and they can).

So unless you bend notes quite a bit, or want a combination of long sustain and easy feedback at very high volumes on a solid-body, then just maybe a heavier string set with a set up optimizing the features of heavy strings could result in an easy-playing guitar.

This is my attempt at a troll post.

In my opinion.

Chris

The Danish painter and writer Herman Stilling made many paintings of friendly, poetic and slightly melancholic trolls. This one is titled "Resting Troll". After all, trolls are nice guys, aren't they?

[ChuckCorbis]

>>> A good setup should make just about any string choice pleasant to handle.

Say what???

>>> Heavy gauge strings may not be that much of a physical challence as many believe.

I say surely this cannot be so!!!!

Or maybe,...

If the heavier strings swing less of an arc to produce the same actual energy (and they do),

then these heavier strings could be set up with much lower action and much less relief (and they can).

So unless you bend notes quite a bit, or want a combination of long sustain and easy feedback at very high volumes on a solid-body, then just maybe a heavier string set with a set up optimizing the features of heavy strings could result in an easy-playing guitar.

This is my attempt at a troll post.

In my opinion.

Chris

Yeah. We like 11s cause we're sissies with crummy guitars set up by amateurs. Ok cool......makes sense.

[PTChristopher2]

>>> We like 11s cause we're sissies


I believe the term is "Nancy-Boys".

>>> poetic and slightly melancholic trolls

Ah, so I "make wit with musing weak" in a poetic and slightly melancholic manner.

But we still associate heavy strings with the acoustic archtops of our grandfathers' era. Today, there is no reason not to pick the sound you like then make it happen on the guitar - in my opinion. If that means heavy strings, you can still make a fast and easy guitar with a bit of thought and setup work.

Chris

[Jabberwocky]

Nancy is nice. Nancy, France - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .

I'd have been happy to be a Nancy boy in my boyhood.