-
Aside from the humbucker and tune-o-matic bridge in the ES-165 vs. the P-90 and wooden bridge of the mid-50s ES-175, are there any other major differences?
I dig everything—especially the sound and neck—of my 1954 ES-125, which I believe is almost identical to an ES-175 of the same era, minus some bling and the Florentine cutaway. But I am starting to want better access to the upper frets.
Would a 1990s ES-165 with a pickup swap be a convincing in-the-ballpark alternative to an actual mid-50s ES-175, which seem to list in the $4,000 and up range? I have a favorite humbucker-sized P-90 and finding a decent wooden bridge shouldn’t be terribly difficult.
-
04-24-2020 06:00 PM
-
In the last two years I acquired three ES-175s. A single pickup ‘53, a double P-90 from early ‘57 and a blonde double Humbucker from early 1971. The two 50’s examples used much thinner laminates, are lighter and far more resonant unplugged.
Your mileage may vary.
Big
-
I currently own a ‘59 and a ‘69 Es-175 (both double pickups). I also had a 2001 ES-165 (single built-in humbucker) for several years. The 165 was my main gigging guitar for about five years and it was actually an excellent instrument. I believe it sounded as good as my vintage 175’s and it felt great, with its relatively chunky neck. I have never owned a p-90 175, but I have played many of them. I agree, that they are lighter and more resonant than a modern 175 or a 165. Having said that, I don’t think a 165 would disappoint anyone who plans on playing mostly amplified. I feel that they are a great value and the simple design with a single pickup is perfect for Jazz.
Keith
-
Mid fifties 175’s and 90’s 165’s are different guitars.
Both do there own thing, in a great way.
50’s 175s are the benchmark. they have a quality that only 65 years of existence can provide. You have to play one, because it can’t be explained. If it comes with the original Lifton case, even the sound of opening and closing the latch is magical.
The 165 with the set in pickup is more substantially built, as most modern Gibson’s are. But they still contain the magic of a 175. The sound has depth. Uncanny amounts of clear depth. My floater 165 Easily outshines my 17” Solid Formed in electric and acoustic sound. Technically, that shouldn’t happen. It does. My set in pickup 165 would have too.
My floater 165 is one of the most beautiful guitars I’ve ever seen.
Where am going with this? No clue. I just didn’t want to NOT try to help.
They are both great guitars, and you have to play them for yourself in order to make a decision. But you absolutely CANT go wrong with either.
Joe D
-
Joe, I know what you’re saying: my 1954 ES-125 has something going on in the sound that my “nicer” more modern guitars don’t. Aged wood? Aged electronics? Romanticization and nostalgia? I don’t know, but man, whatever it is, it’s sweet. I was thinking that I might sell it to fund an ES-165, but I think you may have talked me out of that idea. Access to the upper frets alone might not be worth it.
Originally Posted by Max405
-
I have a 90s ES165, in fact, it used to own Joe, now it owns me. Of all the guitars I own, this one has the most solid feel of any. It inspires confidence in me when I play. hard to define that, but I love playing it. Robust, clear, punchy, and perfectly set up. For the dollar, there isn't more laminated Gibson magic out there than one of these.
-
Even up there with the L5 Lawson?
Wow. We did good!
JD
-
The L5ces also feels really solid too. I actually don't have a bad Gibson. But the ES165 just feels like "Hey kid, I'll take care of you. you worry about playing, i'll make sure you sound good." Maybe also I like the 490R pickup which to me sounds just a little more aggressive than the Classic 57? How would you characterize the pickup sound. Something more focused, somehow, feels a little hotter. Originally Posted by Max405
-
Echoing what everyone said here… My 165 is a great guitar. It doesn’t have the airiness or openness of the 50s models but sometimes you don’t want that in an electric. So that’s players choice. One thing I will say that is a plus for the 165: I’ve never liked those little 50s frets lol.
-
SamBooka, me neither. I can't stand them. All of my vintage instruments have been refretted with medium jumbos. My '55 es175d included. Love that guitar. Those P90s have some serious magnets in them too. Amazing instruments that were played by the some of the best players ever. Originally Posted by SamBooka
-
from Andertons uk Originally Posted by lawson-stone
The mid to late 1960s saw the emergence of a very different type of music coming from the clubs of England. It was an interpretation of the blues that hadn’t been heard before, and it was much harder, more rocking, and definitely louder than anything else before it. As such, this new genre’s players were demanding more powerful amplifiers with increased volume outputs to satisfy their sonic explorations.This led to a call for a more versatile pickup that could split coils through a push/pull knob, and prevent microphonic feedback from occurring when the volumes were turned up to maximum levels. Gibson answered this call with the introduction of the revolutionary 490T and 490R pickups (“T” for treble, and “R” for rhythm), which has the traditional characteristics of the original “Patent Applied For” pickups, but with two key modifications.First, a four-conductor wiring scheme allows the 490s to be connected to any push/pull knob, which lets players split the coils and increase versatility. Gibson also introduced wax potting, which does away with any air space, minimalizing microphonic feedback. The 490R is a humbucker with the tonal characteristics of an original PAF, with a slight increase in upper mid-range response.The 490T bridge pickup is calibrated to match the 490R, with pole pieces aligned a little further apart to accommodate the spacing of the strings at the bridge, which is different than the spacing of the strings at the neck.- Output: 7.4
- Position: Neck
- Magnet: Alnico II
- Wiring: 4-Conductor Details:
- Aggressively hot neck position pick up. Perfect with 500 T in bridge position
-
a bit of Gibson pup info
The Gibson pickup guide! : The Tone King
-
My mileage varied from everybody else. I had high expectations when I got my 1992 ES-165. I already had owned a couple of 1957 ES-175's and with direct comparison there was no way the 165 was like either 175. The 165 felt heavy and didn't sound as bright, to me it lacked that "woody" sound - whatever that means (its pretty subjective I think). The set-in pickup was a 490R like Durban shared info on. I changed it up by replacing that with a Gibson Classic '57 pup. I still was disappointed. I ended up selling it with the extra pup in the case pocket a couple of years ago. The new owner loved it, though. Go figure.
Gibson ES-165 Herb Ellis 1992 Ebony Black | Guitar Addicts | Reverb
I also sold one of the 1957 ES-175's and since then have bought two 1956's and a 1959. Some people collect spoons, some collect art. Well my collection feeds my soul like a spoon and I can hang it on the wall, too. And they are so beautiful with the patina and everything - not to even mention the sounds. There is just nothing like the '50's ES-175's. BigMike says the tops are slightly thinner. That must be the secret. You just can't go wrong with a 175 from the '50's, no matter what pickup has found it's way in that hole. But something went wrong when they built my '92 ES-165.
-
i have had a couple of ES165 all good, however first two were not quite as good as my current, they did vary a bit , some had slightly thicker necks, i did take measurements, etc dates & years, weight, neck dimensions .
Must find my notes somewhere, some were more resonant than others overall sound pretty consistent but 175's vary over the years 60 70 80 90 2000 etc.
My current ES 165 is acoustically loud, pretty light i seemed to recall the others being a pinch heavier but nothing really noticeable just the digital scale tells the truth,
having said that different guitars with different shapes can feel heavier by virtue of the fact they dont hug/gfit body as well, i dont get on with 335 or Ibanez AS200 weight no issue altho they can be heavier than they look. so weight is not always the culprit.
Reply With Quote
Has anyone tried the Raezer's Edge Twin 8 LW (Light Weight)
Today, 11:59 AM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos