Are jazz guitars all heavy and clunky?

[coolvinny]

Heavy/clunky? Nope, definitely not all anyway...especially the modern builds. For example Steve Andersen's builds are quite light, especially his laminate builds (pretty rare). Ditto Steve Holst and Collings. And I'm sure many others.

[lawson-stone]

Some of those heavy jazz boxes like modern ES175s or L5ces' have a really solid feel and mass that you get in the tone as well. I have light and heavy, love them both, but I can't disparage the contemporary "heavy build" ES175. My 2 of that vintage have the thunk and tone that I love. And they feel really solid to play.

[KirkP]

I weighed a few guitars using the bathroom scale subtraction method, sorted by weight:
Yamaha NTX700 4.1 lb (nylon string with preamp)
Eastman AR810CE 5.7 lb (floating pickup)
Gibson L-7 6.3 lb (floating pickup)
Ibanez AF105NT 6.4 lb (two set pickups)
Stratocaster 7.7 lb
Telecaster American Standard 8.2 lb

That might explain why I tend to grab the Yamaha or Eastman when I want to relax. Even 1/2 lb difference is quite noticeable.
(I’ll edit later to convert to kg.)

[lawson-stone]

I weighed my guitars directly and came up with this:

Gibson ES165 1999 6 lbs 13 oz
Gibson ES175D VOS 1959 6 lbs 7 oz
Gibson ES175 Figured Sunburst 2016 7 lbs 12 oz
Epiphone ES175 Premium 6 lbs 7 oz
Gibson L5ces 2015 7 lbs 14 oz

Interestingly the Gibson VOS and Epiphone 175s are the same weight.

[Gitfiddler]

Try a Heritage H525. Fantastic 'old school' P90 tone in a thin-line laminate full hollow-body weighing under 7 lbs.
Or if you want an even thinner bodied version, go for an H530. They are in the 6 lbs. range.

[Hammertone]

I recommend a used Hofner Jazzica or New President.
Light-weight, high-quality, carved-top, definitely within your budget of 2k euros or less.
The Jazzica has a floating mini-humbucking pickup, and the New President has either a floating mini-humbucking pickup or two mini-humbucking pickups.
You should have no problem finding one or the other used in Europe.

[frankhond]

@KirkP @lawson-stone interesting! So the Gibson/Epi 175/165 are all lighter than a strat. That's definitely not the experience I had with the cheap jazzboxes here. But that would explain why so many of them are on sale in the local want-ads...

@Hammertone I'll be on the lookout, there are some shops here that have lots of old nondescript archtops that look like they spent years in someone's attic ;-)

@GitFiddler would like to try a Heritage, lots of good comments about them online, but I have yet to see a single one for sale on this side of the Atlantic...

[lawson-stone]

@KirkP @lawson-stone interesting! So the Gibson/Epi 175/165 are all lighter than a strat. That's definitely not the experience I had with the cheap jazzboxes here. But that would explain why so many of them are on sale in the local want-ads...

@Hammertone I'll be on the lookout, there are some shops here that have lots of old nondescript archtops that look like they spent years in someone's attic ;-)

@GitFiddler would like to try a Heritage, lots of good comments about them online, but I have yet to see a single one for sale on this side of the Atlantic...

To be precise, the Gibson VOS1959 ES175 and the Epiphone ES175 Premium are the lighter instruments in my list. I don't know how much a strat weighs. But the ES165 and ES175 Figured are somewhat heavy, though they actually feel good to me. Nice and solid. I will weight a couple other archtops I have when I get the chance.

[Herbie]

The archtops and semihollow guitars might feel heavier than smaller guitars. I had for years an ES-137 which I eventually sold because it felt so heavy. Although it was just 3,7 kg, as light as an average strat. And I normally play Les Pauls!

My ES-175 VOS is only 2,7 kg and it feels light as a feather.

I live in Finland and the hollowbodies are rarity here too. I am sorry to hear that it is same in Sweden. Maybe Copenhagen is the nearest place that have a shops with archtops (Woodstock Guitars)?


EDIT: The ES-175 weight.

[Herbie]

Not a lot to be found in Copenhagen either. Woodstock carries an ES-275, that has been hanging on their wall since at least 2015, otherwise I don't think they have a lot in terms of archtops. I think I might have spottet and Ibanez AS200 there too.
Our biggest store was 4sound, but it's gone bankrupt earlier this year, so ... and it's not like they had a lot of archtops either, but they used to carry a single ES-175 usually and once every 5 years maybe a L5 would appear. At least I got to try the ES-175 '59ri there and it was indeed both great sounding and fairly light.
Jazzisten.dk is currently closing shop too, so he has a final sale on his webpage featuring mostly Eastman and Ibanez

Damn, sorry to hear. These kinda news make me FEEL heavy and clunky. Like some rare species just before extinction.

[sgosnell]

If you can find one, an Eastman T146 is a nice guitar and very light, should be 5 lb or less. My T145 is well under 5 lb.

[frankhond]

If you can find one, an Eastman T146 is a nice guitar and very light, should be 5 lb or less. My T145 is well under 5 lb.

Looks like a great alternative, but it seems to be out of stock in the entire world... looks like Eastman are really killing it right now and raising prices to meet demand.

[sgosnell]

They're often available used. There are several available on Reverb.

[frankhond]

They're often available used. There are several available on Reverb.

I can only see one in Canada that costs almost 3000 euros.

[frankhond]

Ok, came across an Ibanez JP20. The guitar was light and resonant, not at all like those cheap clunky monsters hanging in the shops. Too bad about the pickup placement, right in the way of my right hand :-( ... So with your help, I guess we established that not all archtops are heavy or clunky, and that one must them in person. The local jazzers sometimes surface with a guitar for sale, an Aria Pro II pe180 just appeared. Those are supposedly heavy, but maybe not clunky... We’ll see... Thanks everyone!

[christianm77]

I've played a ton of archtops in all categories of price, and I don't remember "crappy necks" on any of them. If you are used to slinky strings on a skinny neck, I guess the traditional size of an archtop neck, which is somewhere between a solid body and flat-top acoustic neck, will seem larger, but they are not "crappy" to my knowledge. Maybe you just have horrible shops?

"Different' is not the same as "crappy." Maybe you need to realize you will not find an archtop that plays like a Strat or a Tele. Different beasts for different feasts.

oh man when ever I try an archtop at a mass market guitar shop the set up is always horrendous. I feel like taking my own Allen keys and screwdriver and setting the things up so I can actually evaluate the instrument.

they just put on a set of .12 D’addario chromes (regardless of the guitar) and don’t bother to adjust neck relief, intonation or action. It’s no surprise they never sell them.

[corpse]

oh man when ever I try an archtop at a mass market guitar shop the set up is always horrendous. I feel like taking my own Allen keys and screwdriver and setting the things up so I can actually evaluate the instrument.

they just put on a set of .12 D’addario chromes (regardless of the guitar) and don’t bother to adjust neck relief, intonation or action. It’s no surprise they never sell them.

I was looking for a cheap acoustic archtop a few months ago, and they actually had one I could try at my local music shop. I was surprised and happy that I could actually play before buying. The set up was horrible, I couldn't even get an idea how it would play. I was hitting and listening to all the buzzing notes, and probably shaking my head, and the salesman comes over and says "oh that just needs a quick setup, it will be perfect." And I was just thinking "Then set up the damn guitar."

[mr. beaumont]

oh man when ever I try an archtop at a mass market guitar shop the set up is always horrendous. I feel like taking my own Allen keys and screwdriver and setting the things up so I can actually evaluate the instrument.

they just put on a set of .12 D’addario chromes (regardless of the guitar) and don’t bother to adjust neck relief, intonation or action. It’s no surprise they never sell them.

Well, shit, at least they do that.

I've seen archtops around here with .010's and a plain G.

[dconeill]

PRS is coming out with a guiltar called the SE Hollowbody Standard. It's PRS double-cutaway shaped, but it's hollow. Top is mahogany. PRS just recently announced this guitar at NAMM, cost is around US$1000. It's said to weigh about 6.5 or 7 pounds. It sounds pretty good on the YouTube demos I've heard. Probably will be available in Europe.

[pingu]

i

I weighed my guitars directly and came up with this:

Gibson ES165 1999 6 lbs 13 oz
Gibson ES175D VOS 1959 6 lbs 7 oz
Gibson ES175 Figured Sunburst 2016 7 lbs 12 oz
Epiphone ES175 Premium 6 lbs 7 oz
Gibson L5ces 2015 7 lbs 14 oz

Interestingly the Gibson VOS and Epiphone 175s are the same weight.

what does your Aria Pe180 weigh ?

[rintincop]

At 5.5 pounds, my Casino Coupe is 85% the body size of a 335 and it's "fully hollow".
It's not just heavy weight I don't care for, it's also the awkward bulky size of most jazz guitars. I don't like having that big body jammed in my armpit.

[Gabor]

I am very happy with my Eastman AR-371, bought used around $650 (+$100 for luthier, for fret leveling and misc setup). Satisfies all your expectations. I do not know Epi 175, but this Eastman is a (or two) category better than my Epi Joe Pass. (which had also the same luthier work + got a $200 Benedetto humbucker...)

Now AR-371 is out of manufacturing, so you either buy a new two pickups AR-372, or a used AR-371.

[frankhond]

Ok so here’s what happened. I took some time and made a few roadtrips, encouraged by all your suggestions. Tried an Ibanez JP20, Eastman 805ce, Levin 335, Gibson ES165 with floater, Aria Pro II PE180. The Gibson was disappointing because clearly it needed a real humbucker. The jp20 was a little gem but overpriced. The Eastman was very light, resonant and easy to play but strangely uninspiring, a focused middy sound that probably would be perfect for a certain style but not me. The Aria had that ES175 sound but was built like a British WW2 tank, why play a heavy 17 inch laminate guitar that has the same sound as a lighter 16 inch one? The Levin was just an old guitar.

Then I ran into a Heritage Eagle, all solid mahogany, slim comfortable neck, great acoustic tone... and that was that. They are kinda rare over here, in the US they are cheaper... but it really felt like a well built very playable guitar. So it came home with me. I might post a ngd thread soon...

[mr. beaumont]

Then I ran into a Heritage Eagle, all solid mahogany, slim comfortable neck, great acoustic tone... and that was that. They are kinda rare over here, in the US they are cheaper... but it really felt like a well built very playable guitar. So it came home with me. I might post a ngd thread soon...

Yeah, no, that's not negotiable. You have to post a NGD thread.

Good work, in my opinion, you picked the best instrument of the lot.

[frankhond]

Yeah, no, that's not negotiable. You have to post a NGD thread.

Good work, in my opinion, you picked the best instrument of the lot.

It's by far the best one for sure. NGD coming up, I may need some basic archtop education too...