Fender Tone Master TWIN Reverb

**skiboyny** · 09-27-2019, 09:31 AM

I prefered the tonemaster it in this video. I own a 65 Deluxe so that's saying a lot.

Originally Posted by christianm77

It’s ok, Andy’s on the case

**fep** · 09-27-2019, 09:53 AM

I can't tell which is which. If they did nail it and it's a 50/50 chance of guessing the tube amp correctly, then 1/2 the folks will say "see I knew I could tell the difference, it's pretty obvious to me". Humans!

**jads57** · 09-27-2019, 01:32 PM

I've probably owned every type of amp imaginable. Including Dumble OD SPECIALS. There were a couple of tube amps like an old Gibson that sounded so good, as well as a Marshall that was touch sensitive.
And I think Mesa Boogie makes wonderful amps as well.

But to be honest my Quilter Aviator amps and now the Tonemaster Twin I tried give me the perfect Clean Tone I look for in an amp. The pedals are so good these days any overdrive,chorus,delay, is available to compliment my basic tone.

The really wonderful thing is the weight,portability, direct out, and consistency of tone at every venue. Due to not having to depend on voltage fluctuations at different places I play. Also no more tube biasing or failures especially on the gig, OUCH!!!

**guavajelly** · 09-27-2019, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by skiboyny

I prefered the tonemaster it in this video. I own a 65 Deluxe so that's saying a lot.

Me too.

**Stringswinger** · 09-27-2019, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by skiboyny

I prefered the tonemaster it in this video. I own a 65 Deluxe so that's saying a lot.

I also preferred the Tonemaster in that video. But:

A) Compressed Youtube videos are very different sounding than a real world comparison

B) I had a 65 Deluxe reissue and did not like it (so it does not concern me that I preferred the Tonemaster)

C) I wonder which I would prefer in a real world setting to the Tonemaster vs. a vintage original? I am betting the vintage original. I have two vintage tube amps that scratch that itch for me and are both carry friendly to me still (and I am in my early 60's). I think that I have enough tubes hoarded away to cover my needs for the rest of my playing days with my two tube amps.

But I think it is great that we have a new choice that utilizes modern technology.

**ruger9** · 09-27-2019, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Stringswinger

C) I wonder which I would prefer in a real world setting to the Tonemaster vs. a vintage original? I am betting the vintage original. I have two vintage tube amps that scratch that itch for me and are both carry friendly to me still (and I am in my early 60's). I think that I have enough tubes hoarded away to cover my needs for the rest of my playing days with my two tube amps.

But I think it is great that we have a new choice that utilizes modern technology.

Well, I can offer this: I recently replaced my tube amp (a Fender Supersonic 60, which I love for loud applications) with a Roland Blues Cube Artist. It's been 4 rehearsals now (LOUD), and I can honestly say, I don't miss the tube amp one bit. I also feel no difference in playing the 2, at least not in a loud 2-guitar rock band. The only thing I "miss" about the 60-watt tube amp is the WEIGHT!!!!

The same at home: Supersonic 22 ... and honestly, I love the 22. But I'm not sure I'd miss it. I'm not selling yet (I AM selling the 60), but it's quite possible... I'll have to live with the Roland awhile longer, but it's looking very good so far.

**skiboyny** · 09-27-2019, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by Stringswinger

I also preferred the Tonemaster in that video. But:

A) Compressed Youtube videos are very different sounding than a real world comparison

B) I had a 65 Deluxe reissue and did not like it (so it does not concern me that I preferred the Tonemaster)

C) I wonder which I would prefer in a real world setting to the Tonemaster vs. a vintage original? I am betting the vintage original. I have two vintage tube amps that scratch that itch for me and are both carry friendly to me still (and I am in my early 60's). I think that I have enough tubes hoarded away to cover my needs for the rest of my playing days with my two tube amps.

But I think it is great that we have a new choice that utilizes modern technology.

C is a great question. Mine is vintage original. That is a comparison video I would like to see.

**ruger9** · 09-28-2019, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by skiboyny

C is a great question. Mine is vintage original. That is a comparison video I would like to see.

the catch with the vintage ones is, THEY all don't sound the same either. And this point was made by the reviewers in a couple of the videos. One guy owned 2 vintage Twins, and they did not sound the same. He sold the one he liked least. So at some point in all these comparisons, you move into real-world territory.... some vintage pieces are dogs, some great, and some just ok. Alot of factors. So the new TMs sounding a little different then a RI is no different than the TMs sounding a little different to a vintage original.

At that point, it's not a "better or worse" situation, it's just preference.

**cosmic gumbo** · 09-28-2019, 11:13 PM

I'm all for a high tech digital deluxe reverb that is a portable 23lbs vs 42lbs. But...$900 for a Chinese SS amp, from a company that ditches poor selling products from their line will keep me waiting for some kind of proof it's a long term winner, not next year's $450 closeout.

I can never know how an amp will really sound until I actually use it in the band performance situation it's going to be used for. That's how they should make demo videos....

**dconeill** · 09-29-2019, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

... from a company that ditches poor selling products from their line ...

What company doesn't "ditch[es] poor selling products from their line"? A company that does otherwise is not long for the world.

**Alter** · 09-29-2019, 06:21 PM

Yes, but to stop producing a tube or many times a solid state amp ain't no big deal, you can easily replace or repair something if need be. But a digital amp with 4 cores etc.. once a problem arises, the amp is history..

**Tal_175** · 09-29-2019, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by Alter

Yes, but to stop producing a tube or many times a solid state amp ain't no big deal, you can easily replace or repair something if need be. But a digital amp with 4 cores etc.. once a problem arises, the amp is history..

TM's have pine cabinets and good speakers which are really the expensive parts of the amp. If the digital stuff breaks down or gets out dated, I presume they could be replaced (but not fixed) or upgraded relatively cheaply. You can even get Deluxe or Twin amp kits and build tube chassis that would fit in the cabinet and convert it into a regular Deluxe or Twin (of course after removing the tonemaster logo

).
Though I'm hoping Fender will offer hardware upgrades and replacements in the future for these TM's.

**jads57** · 09-29-2019, 10:00 PM

I can definitely understand the hesitancy since Fender has issued so many modeled amps in the last 10 years. But I think technology keeps evolving and it really doesn't matter to me where it's manufactured if it does the job.

I'm really glad that they aren't trying to offer the kitchen sink with this amp. But in the future, a few other versions of Tweed,Blonde, even Silverface would be welcome!

**christianm77** · 09-30-2019, 02:10 AM

There’s seldom much advantage in being an early adopter if you are a performer with a limited budget need to be careful about your purchases. Tried and true is the way to go....

But I look forward to hearing people’s experiences with them.

**entresz** · 09-30-2019, 02:25 AM

I was close to pulling the pin and getting a ToneMaster Deluxe Reverb - however I've decided to hold off for the while until they've been around a bit longer to determine how they go in terms of reliability. That's what I love about my Quilter Aviator Twin Ten - I've done hundreds of gigs with it and it's never missed a beat (although I have!).

I like the idea of Fender Tweed Bassman "Tonemaster"....

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 09-30-2019, 02:29 PM

Just wanted to say it's great that this is an amicable thread. Over on TDPRI, the Tone Master threads are getting nasty, personal and rolling around in the mud.

**lawson-stone** · 09-30-2019, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

Just wanted to say it's great that this is an amicable thread. Over on TDPRI, the Tone Master threads are getting nasty, personal and rolling around in the mud.

YEs, this has actually been helpful. I am purging a bunch of old gear and was wanting to get either a nice Deluxe Reverb or one of the TM amps. This thread has been very helpful, though I still don't know which I'd get, or even if I'd get either. Not as if I needed another amp!

**Jim Soloway** · 09-30-2019, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by jads57

I can definitely understand the hesitancy since Fender has issued so many modeled amps in the last 10 years. But I think technology keeps evolving and it really doesn't matter to me where it's manufactured if it does the job.

I'm really glad that they aren't trying to offer the kitchen sink with this amp. But in the future, a few other versions of Tweed,Blonde, even Silverface would be welcome!

I agree with all of this but I think it's the $1000 price tag that makes a lot of people (including me) nervous. I don't mind owning a $400 orphan but $1000 orphan is a bit of a concern. Otherwise the idea of that Deluxe really appeals to me.

**lawson-stone** · 10-01-2019, 10:04 AM

These amps really raise an interesting question. If they are as good as Fender says, why would someone buy the TMDR instead of the TMTR? The price difference is not huge, the weight difference, okay, 10 lbs is noticeable. But otherwise, what would be the point of the TMDR over the TMTR?

Could it be that the difference between 2 6V6 power tubes vs. 4 6L6 is captured in the modeling and if folks really prefer the 6V6 sound they'd go with the DR? It would be interesting if the two amps really were that different. I tend to think people chose the originals mainly based on power and weight. Someone who wanted to really burn in any venue went with the TR. Someone playing smaller clubs went with the DR. But now, the only reason I can figure would be that the TM amps somehow capture the difference in the character of each.

But I haven't seen or heard them live, just wondering why someone would go with the TMDR when for $100 more, they could have the TMTR?

**Tal_175** · 10-01-2019, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

These amps really raise an interesting question. If they are as good as Fender says, why would someone buy the TMDR instead of the TMTR? The price difference is not huge, the weight difference, okay, 10 lbs is noticeable. But otherwise, what would be the point of the TMDR over the TMTR?

Could it be that the difference between 2 6V6 power tubes vs. 4 6L6 is captured in the modeling and if folks really prefer the 6V6 sound they'd go with the DR? It would be interesting if the two amps really were that different. I tend to think people chose the originals mainly based on power and weight. Someone who wanted to really burn in any venue went with the TR. Someone playing smaller clubs went with the DR. But now, the only reason I can figure would be that the TM amps somehow capture the difference in the character of each.

But I haven't seen or heard them live, just wondering why someone would go with the TMDR when for $100 more, they could have the TMTR?

I was thinking the same thing. Why not just get the Twin. It's got more headroom and power, but it can still give you the tubey crunch at low volumes with the attenuation. Besides you also get the mid knob.
I think a side from 10lbs, not everyone likes the big a 2x12 cabinet. For mostly living room players 1x12 with more extreme attenuation available for DR (0.2watts min vs 1watt min of Twin) makes it a better choice.

**Greco** · 10-01-2019, 10:59 AM

Isn't the price difference between the DR and TR more like $275.00 (USD)?

**archtopeddy** · 10-01-2019, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

These amps really raise an interesting question. If they are as good as Fender says, why would someone buy the TMDR instead of the TMTR?

Hi Lawson,

In a word I'd say: Size.

It's not just weight that encumbers transporting an amp. A DR-size amp is easier to move and fit in my car. Maybe once or twice a year I play a gig where a Twin would be preferable to a DR. But even then, I believe the TMDR -- with the Line Out and Cab Sim features -- will work just fine. I guess I'll find out when the time comes.

I was sold on the TMDR because I wanted a practical solution for day-to-day gigs. The features on the TMDR -- weight, size, attenuator, connectability and most importantly a viable sound -- met my needs at least on the paper. Having played a few gigs with the TMDR, it is more than just on paper, it's meeting my needs in the real world. I haven't missed the two tube amps I traded in not one iota.

**Tal_175** · 10-01-2019, 11:00 AM

Also 10lbs is 10lbs. It's like carrying an extra Les Paul around.

**jads57** · 10-01-2019, 11:15 AM

A living room player wouldn't want a Twin anyway. I think these are aimed at gigging players who want a loud Fender in a lightweight package. These are
much like Quilter Aviator amps .
I was pleasantly surprised how good the Twin sounded! And I'm a Quilter Aviator user for the last 4 to 5 years.

**John A.** · 10-01-2019, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

These amps really raise an interesting question. If they are as good as Fender says, why would someone buy the TMDR instead of the TMTR? The price difference is not huge, the weight difference, okay, 10 lbs is noticeable. But otherwise, what would be the point of the TMDR over the TMTR?

Could it be that the difference between 2 6V6 power tubes vs. 4 6L6 is captured in the modeling and if folks really prefer the 6V6 sound they'd go with the DR? It would be interesting if the two amps really were that different. I tend to think people chose the originals mainly based on power and weight. Someone who wanted to really burn in any venue went with the TR. Someone playing smaller clubs went with the DR. But now, the only reason I can figure would be that the TM amps somehow capture the difference in the character of each.

But I haven't seen or heard them live, just wondering why someone would go with the TMDR when for $100 more, they could have the TMTR?

There are many differences between DR's and TR's beyond the output tubes (in design and in tone); a Twin is not just a louder Deluxe, so it makes sense that there are two different models. People talk about the *.reverb amps being the same amp scaled to different power levels because, but that's an oversimplification. The variations in rectifiers, output sections, speaker configurations, and cabinets make for big differences in sound. Their tones intersect to some degree (a lot at low volume), but as you turn the volume knob up, the tones and the amount of overdrive diverge a lot. A DR and a TR on 6 are very different sounds, volume aside.

John