Call for moratorium on 335s

[Hammertone]

I totally get what you're saying here, but maybe Adam isn't looking for extra, woody warmth in his guitar. Maybe he plays a 335 because that's the sound he likes. Not everyone is search for the same, singular jazz tone of the Kenny Burrell variety.
Also, I'd be pretty surprised if he'd never played an archtop before, even if just trying one out or using another player's guitar. Hell, even I've played an L-5 before and I'm a mere mortal.

All true, which is why I'm concerned for his soul.

[lawson-stone]

I can't help it... I still secretly lust for a Gibson ES330.

Even an Epiphone Elitist Casino, in a pinch.

Pray for me.

[rmpmcdermott]

All true, which is why I'm concerned for his soul.

Touche!

[christianm77]

I can't help it... I still secretly lust for a Gibson ES330.

P90s.

You are forgiven

[jorgemg1984]

That might be post production. Live his sound seems to be quite dry....

Obviously sometimes there’s a bit more reverb than you might hear live. But I think with AR it seems like the aesthetic is to that it’s not heard by the audience so much.

Never saw him live, but it doesn't sound dry. And he does list lots of gear on his website

adamrogersmusic.com

He does mentior using spring reverb, so not post production.

I'm not sure if you're serious or just have too much free time, but anyway - a Les Paul or a 335, given the same setup, will probably yeld similar sonic results. But, something that people forget on forums all the time, they will feel completely different. I had a Les Paul with heavy strings and it was hell to play it... a 335 can hang 12s much more easily. Also, for loud live situations, and archtop can be tough (feedback and cutting trough the mix) - I've learned to deal with because I can't bond with 335s or solid bodies, but it's tough. So, despite not enojoying 335s, I can see why people use them besides looking good on stage.

[christianm77]

It's sounding great for jazz and I'm looking forward to playing the bagpipes with it when my interest in jazz wanes. I'm sure an archtop wouldn't be so flexible.

I’m not sure if I quite understand this post

[lawson-stone]

I’m not sure if I quite understand this post

That might not be an altogether disadvantageous position in which to find yourself.

[lawson-stone]

P90s.

You are forgiven

It's as if a great load just lifted from off my weary shoulders!

[christianm77]

Never saw him live, but it doesn't sound dry. And he does list lots of gear on his website

adamrogersmusic.com

He does mentior using spring reverb, so not post production.

I think what I am trying to say is that the reverb is more ‘musical glue’ than a feature of his sound per se.... it’s like with many players a long train delay even mixed quite low is quite an important tonal characteristic.

When I’ve seen AR live on both 335 and Tele I’ve never been aware of the ambience on the amp. It may well be there, but in context with the band you don’t really hear it. On vids too.

I'm not sure if you're serious or just have too much free time, but anyway - a Les Paul or a 335, given the same setup, will probably yeld similar sonic results. But, something that people forget on forums all the time, they will feel completely different. I had a Les Paul with heavy strings and it was hell to play it... a 335 can hang 12s much more easily. Also, for loud live situations, and archtop can be tough (feedback and cutting trough the mix) - I've learned to deal with because I can't bond with 335s or solid bodies, but it's tough. So, despite not enojoying 335s, I can see why people use them besides looking good on stage.

They don’t look good on stage.

Not even when they are accompanied with a woolly hat.

[christianm77]

My wife says I am what is wrong with the internet.

[John A.]

I suppose anything (semi)hollow became obsolete once the solid body was invented. Solids are the most purely electric instruments, so if you want to play an electric guitar, there's no need to bring those throwback hollow things.

What I'd really like to see is a moratorium on the modern reverb/delay sound. Everybody's been playing in elevator shafts and bathrooms for the past 10 years.

Solids were invented before semi-hollows.

John

[Stringswinger]

Now, before I briefly return to chain yanking and facetiousness, here is a thing that I'm sure someone's done on the forum...

Blind comparison 335 and Les Paul (or similar solidbody) through a clean fender amp, similar strings playing jazz lines.

Cos I think that the Gibson Les Paul Studio is one hell of a jazz guitar for the money, yet no-one plays them.

So....this suggests the importance of

A E S T H E T I C S

To the working 335 toting jazz noodler.

OTOH maybe there is a difference. In which case I will privately note it but pretend its not there and gaslight everyone who does notice it as being an effete corksniffer.

Just so we are clear on how this operates.

I totally agree about the Les Paul Studio. I use mine on many gigs (when I an not playing one of my 175's). I have owned many 335s, Teles, Strats and other semi hollows and IMO, the Les Paul Studio is the best of the bunch for jazz. Mine is a 2017 Lest Paul Studio T. It is strung with TI 12 flats and I mostly use it through a Henriksen Blu. The 490R Pickup sounds great and the weight relieved body means the sub 8 pound solid body guitar is comfy and has all the sustain one would ever want. Often when I bring it out on gigs where the other guys have not heard it, they look alarmed at the beginning of the gig and end up telling me how great my rig sounded. I bought it for under $900 from a dealer who lost his Gibson franchise. It was a true floor model, but other than some pickguard scratching, it was pretty much a mint condition guitar.

After owning many 335's, I determined that I do not like their nasal tone nor do I like the Mickey Mouse ears look.

I will own my Les Paul Studio till the end.

[christianm77]

What I'd really like to see is a moratorium on the modern reverb/delay sound. Everybody's been playing in elevator shafts and bathrooms for the past 10 years.

Damn you’ve been following my gigging schedule closely.

[Greentone]

For the last spell, I've had roundwound tens on my Polytone Improv II (Tommy Gumina's take on the Gibson ES-345 w/o Varitone). I replaced my Gibson ES-335 with this Polytone a couple of years ago (thanks, Hammertone)--I had wanted an Improv II since 1980.

Years ago, I kept my 335 and a first-year issue tweed Fender Pro Junior around as my "rock" rig. It, too, had tens and just scorched through the little Pro Jr. Later on, I started playing some jazz dates on the 335 and ended up restringing it with TI Swing 11-47 strings. I sold the 335 to help finance my purchase of a big archtop.

The Improv filled the void left by that sale. There are some differences, however, The center block in the Improv is mahogany. Never seen that before. Tone is nice. Sustain, too.

Anyway, today I strung up the Improv with Chromes 11-50. Stiffer than the TI, but I am noticing something most unusual, too. The Improv II is getting a definite "thunk" with these strings, very reminiscent of my old ES-175. I cannot explain it, but for goodness' sake let's hope this doesn't go away any time soon.

Meanwhile, I'm _out_ on the moratorium for 335/335-like guitars. It was my last guitar set up for rock. Now that it's strung properly, it's a different beast.

[christianm77]

I totally agree about the Les Paul Studio. I use mine on many gigs (when I an not playing one of my 175's). I have owned many 335s, Teles, Strats and other semi hollows and IMO, the Les Paul Studio is the best of the bunch for jazz. Mine is a 2017 Lest Paul Studio T. It is strung with TI 12 flats and I mostly use it through a Henriksen Blu. The 490R Pickup sounds great and the weight relieved body means the sub 8 pound solid body guitar is comfy and has all the sustain one would ever want. Often when I bring it out on gigs where the other guys have not heard it, they look alarmed at the beginning of the gig and end up telling me how great my rig sounded. I bought it for under $900 from a dealer who lost his Gibson franchise. It was a true floor model, but other than some pickguard scratching, it was pretty much a mint condition guitar.

After owning many 335's, I determined that I do not like their nasal tone nor do I like the Mickey Mouse ears look.

I will own my Les Paul Studio till the end.

Yeah in seriousness (yes there are two registers to my interactions here o angry 335 mob of the internet wielding flaming torches and pitchforks, see the last line of the OP) I find that every 335 I’ve ever tried requires a savage cut on the treble control, which is weirdly not a problem I’ve ever had with neck position on a tele.

It’s quite a twangy guitar, all told.

Also the body shape I find very alien. The excellent top fret access is a plus far and beyond any of the other guitars I play... but I find it quite weird. Could get used to it, but I’d have to love the sound. And I don’t.

OTOH someone handed me a LP and I felt immediately comfortable. (Studio is good because with an LP you have the LP rock and roll baggage, and I can’t rock a top hat either.)

Thing sounded awesome too. Someone had painted it bright green. That was less awesome. Gauge .11 rounds, good to go. I was really surprised.

[John A.]

Now, before I briefly return to chain yanking and facetiousness, here is a thing that I'm sure someone's done on the forum...

Blind comparison 335 and Les Paul (or similar solidbody) through a clean fender amp, similar strings playing jazz lines.

Cos I think that the Gibson Les Paul Studio is one hell of a jazz guitar for the money, yet no-one plays them.

So....this suggests the importance of

A E S T H E T I C S

To the working 335 toting jazz noodler.

OTOH maybe there is a difference. In which case I will privately note it but pretend its not there and gaslight everyone who does notice it as being an effete corksniffer.

Just so we are clear on how this operates.

Not exactly blind tests, but I have kind approximated this. A good friend of mine has both a 335 and LP, and we've done a lot of recording together (tons of jazz standards, and a bunch of more blues/rock/fusion oriented original music). Listening back to old mixes, I'm often unsure of which he was playing. But that's also because he tries to get the same sound out of both. Plus it's him playing, and I hear him more than I hear the guitar (he has other guitars that he also sounds pretty much the same on). I have a D'Angelico semi-hollow, and I used to have a LP, but it was an unusual variant - LP Studio DC, which has a 24 fret neck. The neck pickup on that sounds very different from my D'A (or a 335, or LP Standard), and I can easily tell it on recordings.

Gaslight away.

John

[ugarte]

Let's face it, ES-335s are for pussies.

. . .with qualification

I'm pretty sure no one ever called Freddie King a pussy without a trip to the dentist afterwards (although that was possibly a 355).

[Greentone]

I have a jazz gig Friday. I think I will use the Polytone Improv II.

[entresz]

I too don't get the ES335 thing.

To my ears there is very little difference in amplified sound between a 335 and a Les Paul for example.
My Les Paul Recording with flatwounds sounds a lot more hollow than the 335s I've heard.

One guy who gets a gorgeous sound from a 335 style guitar (it's actually a laminated brazilian rosewood ES355 with low impedance pickups ala the Les Paul Professional/Personal/Recording) is Tony Motolla - sublime! Would he have sounded the same with a Les Paul with the same pickups? Likely.

[Greentone]

entresz,

+1 Agree. Tony Mottola's 1969 Rosewood ES-355 with lo-impedance pickups was gorgeous looking and sounding. Rudy's had it for sale a while back for about $40K. It sold, but I don't know what the final price was. I would have loved to have gotten that one.

[jorgemg1984]

I think what I am trying to say is that the reverb is more ‘musical glue’ than a feature of his sound per se.... it’s like with many players a long train delay even mixed quite low is quite an important tonal characteristic.

When I’ve seen AR live on both 335 and Tele I’ve never been aware of the ambience on the amp. It may well be there, but in context with the band you don’t really hear it. On vids too.



They don’t look good on stage.

Not even when they are accompanied with a woolly hat.

OK, it's the "too much free time" option.

[JGinNJ]

I think Emily Remler sounded great on her (brother's) 335.

I had a vintage Guild Starfire V (with a Bigsby!) for decades. Never could quite get the sound I wanted out of it, but a blues playing friend of mine picked it up one day and made it howl. When I finally got a full hollow archtop (yeah, a Joe pass emporer) i realized what i'd been missing. Now I like 'em even bigger.

[WillMbCdn5]

Thank you so much for this thread I was going to get rid of my Gibson Super 300 in favor of upgrading to the much higher numbered Gibson 335 . I think I'll hold off for the Super 335 !!!

Will

[Greentone]

Never sell a Super 300. Those things are awesome guitars.

[Howzabopping]

Now, before I briefly return to chain yanking and facetiousness, here is a thing that I'm sure someone's done on the forum...

Blind comparison 335 and Les Paul (or similar solidbody) through a clean fender amp, similar strings playing jazz lines.

Maybe something like this?