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Here's Ted McCarty and Les Paul examining an early production Black Beauty. It's obviously a posed photo, but it always made me laugh since it appears that it took both of them to lift that heavy axe.
Gibson Les Paul Electric Guitar >> Vintage Guitar and Bass
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08-16-2020 02:51 PM
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Nothing better to do, so I was looking at who's on line and what they were looking at. Someone was looking at this thread so I thought I would!
All I can add is I'm 70 in May and still regularly gig my 2004 swiss cheesed standard and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it!
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Seated upright they ain't so great but nothing beats it for couch work and they hang on a strap quite well. Overall I find them very comfortable!
Originally Posted by garybaldy
Nothing better to do, so I was looking at who's on line and what they were looking at. Someone was looking at this thread so I thought I would!
All I can add is I'm 70 in May and still regularly gig my 2004 swiss cheesed standard and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it!
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Oh NO!!! I've been LOVING the sound and feel of the wrong guitar for over 40 years!
I'd better ask ChatGPT what to do QUICK!
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Old thread, I know, but I found this part of the OP interesting:
"No neck dive. No body dive. No rib-gouging. It feels lighter. It's in a *much* better playing position. I could swear it even sounds better."
Each guitar is an individual; weight and balance will differ. But here's another fact that probably not everyone is aware of; the position of the neck strap button differs as well, also among individuals of the same year and LP-model. Some individual guitars got the button lower than others, closer to the neck joint. I assume this got to do with factory eyeballing,
i.e no rulers or templates were used. Certainly no weight balance test was done prior to drilling. As a consequence these guitars will hang a bit different when strapped. Big deal? well, first and foremost you 'll have to secure the strap using a strap lock on the neck button and, here's the beef:
The type of strap locks used will affect the way your LP hangs. When using classic Shaller strap locks, the distance between the strap ends will increase and the strap never gets in direct contact with the guitar body. Just like OP I could swear it even sounds better(!) At first I thought this could be explained by feel (when it feels right it sounds right, you know)...but maybe there's some other factor in play here, go figure. I regularly use rubber washers when I need strap locks, but my LPs got Schallers, because those got the tone
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Talking of balance, I've found when carrying my LP in it's case, it feels to be at precisely the right angle to be comfortable in the hand. Would there have been modification to the handle position for a fully chambered LP? Would they have even thought about it? Would it make a difference anyway? Originally Posted by JCat
Old thread, I know, but I found this part of the OP interesting:
"No neck dive. No body dive. No rib-gouging. It feels lighter. It's in a *much* better playing position. I could swear it even sounds better."
Each guitar is an individual; weight and balance will differ. But here's another fact that probably not everyone is aware of; the position of the neck strap button differs as well, also among individuals of the same year and LP-model. Some individual guitars got the button lower than others, closer to the neck joint. I assume this got to do with factory eyeballing,
i.e no rulers or templates were used. Certainly no weight balance test was done prior to drilling. As a consequence these guitars will hang a bit different when strapped. Big deal? well, first and foremost you 'll have to secure the strap using a strap lock on the neck button and, here's the beef:
The type of strap locks used will affect the way your LP hangs. When using classic Shaller strap locks, the distance between the strap ends will increase and the strap never gets in direct contact with the guitar body. Just like OP I could swear it even sounds better(!) At first I thought this could be explained by feel (when it feels right it sounds right, you know)...but maybe there's some other factor in play here, go figure. I regularly use rubber washers when I need strap locks, but my LPs got Schallers, because those got the tone
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If the Les Paul wasn't so heavy, I'd have another. They sound and play great.
Nowadays, my old shoulder doesn't like heavy guitars. (Whatever the make.)
A vintage Hofner Club guitar has a very similar small shape (copied?), but it has a hollow body and therefore is very light in weight.
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My 2010 Les Paul Studio has a chamberd mahogany body, so its not too heavy at 7lb 10 oz. I don’t find it uncomfortable to play.
Keith
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A regular LP hard case is somewhat heavy also when there's no guitar inside. The weight difference between two guitars is but a fraction of the total load we have to carry (LP players are very strong!), but a padded gig bag/soft case can be used as a back pack and then there's no balancing act when on the go.) Originally Posted by garybaldy
I agree that a regular LP hard case is well balanced (and good looking too) and I don't think you'll notice a diff if the guitar is chambered. I don't know about variations in handle position - my Gibson cases from various years are all the same; the guitar carries with neck pointing proudly upwards and that's fine (because when there's a risk of bumping into something or someone, I just turn the guitar around, neck pointing up behind my back)
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Growing up, Les Pauls seemed to be expensive guitars beyond my means. Fairly recently a friend of mine got a LP Supreme. As is often the case, he tired of it and wanted to move on. I never played one before, but I took it off his hands.
Here's a video of the model.
What is supreme about it is the bling. It balances well enough for a LP. There's really nothing to not like unless you want a thin neck.
I use a strap when I sit, so balancing it is not really different than when standing for a performance. I also got this:
There were two versions of the Supreme. Mine is the first iteration. It weighs about 8.5 lbs despite the beefy neck.
I've had weight relieved Gibsons and Heritages. Purists argue that sustain and tone suffer. In my opinion, they are from an alternative universe.
I'm impressed with the quality of the bling on this, which I think is a Memphis guitar.
If you were stranded on an island for a year and only had a Les Paul, you'd adjust and do okay, even if it was the LP Standard!
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My LP '50s Tribute is slightly thinner then a typical Standard, and it has the "Swiss Cheese" weight relief, which puts it a little under 9lbs. That's a bit heavier than my strat (IIRC, around 7.5 lbs) and my D'Angelico EX-DC (IIRC, about 8 lbs), but not too bad. It starts to bother me a bit toward the end of a 3-set gig, but so do the others to varying degrees. I actually like the form factor a lot. It's comfortable both standing and sitting (always on a strap). I always use gig bags with backpack straps with all my guitars (don't own any hard cases), so carrying it in one hand is a non-issue. I'll often bring the LP just because it's smaller than others, which makes it easier to deal with on public transit (and to stow the less bulky case on a crowded bandstand). But I do think that it's at about the limit of tolerable weight for me. A friend of mine's late-'70s LP Custom is significantly heavier (I'd guess close to 12 lbs), and every time I try it out it's "holy shit, how do you play this thing?"
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"Weight relief" and "a little under 9 lbs" is an oxymoron LOL Originally Posted by John A.
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When I was a kid I went to Andertons and tried a "Les Paul" for the first time. Whilst sitting down I took my hands off the guitar and it leaped bottom first off my leg onto the floor.
Fighting a guitars urge to throw itself around whilst trying to play it, is not what I consider an enjoyable experience. A truly terrible design that unfortunately brings lots of people joy and has been used to write loads of great music.
Carry on.
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There are an awful lot of non-LP guitars that way somewhere between 8 and 9 lbs, and an awful lot of LP's that way considerably more than that. But, yeah, a ukulele it ain't. Originally Posted by ruger9
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That's what you get for playing "Lester Leaps In" when you demo a guitar. Originally Posted by Archie
When I was a kid I went to Andertons and tried a "Les Paul" for the first time. Whilst sitting down I took my hands off the guitar and it leaped bottom first off my leg onto the floor.
Fighting a guitars urge to throw itself around whilst trying to play it, is not what I consider an enjoyable experience. A truly terrible design that unfortunately brings lots of people joy and has been used to write loads of great music.
Carry on.
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Hey Marty, that looks exactly like mine! I bought it new back when they were first introduced. Originally Posted by Marty Grass
Growing up, Les Pauls seemed to be expensive guitars beyond my means. Fairly recently a friend of mine got a LP Supreme. As is often the case, he tired of it and wanted to move on. I never played one before, but I took it off his hands.
Here's a video of the model.
What is supreme about it is the bling. It balances well enough for a LP. There's really nothing to not like unless you want a thin neck.
I use a strap when I sit, so balancing it is not really different than when standing for a performance. I also got this:
There were two versions of the Supreme. Mine is the first iteration. It weighs about 8.5 lbs despite the beefy neck.
I've had weight relieved Gibsons and Heritages. Purists argue that sustain and tone suffer. In my opinion, they are from an alternative universe.
I'm impressed with the quality of the bling on this, which I think is a Memphis guitar.
If you were stranded on an island for a year and only had a Les Paul, you'd adjust and do okay, even if it was the LP Standard!
I had the pickups swapped out for Seth Lovers, which took a tech hours to 'fish out' the electronics out of the enlarged input cavity. (See below). Lots of cursing took place, but he got it done.
Since then it's been my favorite Les Paul. Play yours in good health, my friend.
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Nice axes fellas! Those are awesome guitars. When I was shopping for my 335 they had a flamed top brown one. I had to give a good run through an amp! If I hadn't come there for a 335 I would've had to figure out a way to take it home. Love the thicker body and inlays on them but $3500 lightly used at my local GC, oof!!! Originally Posted by Gitfiddler
Hey Marty, that looks exactly like mine! I bought it new back when they were first introduced.
I had the pickups swapped out for Seth Lovers, which took a tech hours to 'fish out' the electronics out of the enlarged input cavity. (See below). Lots of cursing took place, but he got it done.
Since then it's been my favorite Les Paul. Play yours in good health, my friend.
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Personally, I think the 'Les Paul' needs that heavy mahogany body to get that classic 'Les Paul' sound.
I've tried lighter weight versions of the 'Les Paul', but I'm not convinced they sound the same as the classic heavy mahogany body 'Les Paul'.
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For many years, I gigged a slightly sub 8 pound Les Paul Studio and felt that even with its ultra modern weight relief it got the Les Paul sound, though with its slightly thinner maple top, it was a tad dark. I never liked the rosewood board with inlays on an ebony guitar with no binding so I moved it along. Originally Posted by GuyBoden
My current and probably last Les Paul is a 2023 Custom Shop Black Les Paul Custom. It has the Swiss cheese weight relief and still weighs in at 10 pounds. But with the long tenon neck, the sustain is off the charts. Tone and looks wise, it is the best Lester that I have ever owned, but if I was still gigging regularly, it would be too heavy for me at 68.
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I have had a great R8 since 1994. but I am not too crazy about the ergonomics. It is not a great guitar for playing while sitting for me, I prefer hollow and semis for that.
It's fine for playing and standing, and mine isn't too heavy either (under 9 pounds). It does have a thicker neck than I prefer, but it has the LP sound in spades, so I've kept it around.
The LP Custom I bought new in '68 was pretty heavy, fortunately we didn't weigh guitars then! But I was young buck then and could handle it. Now, not so much.
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I find my modern weight relief 2016 LP very comfortable to play. No issues at all. Fantastic guitar.
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I guess we are not into suffering for our art.
If I had to blame anyone, it's Leo Fender. Les Paul brought his log to Gibson. They improved on that log a great deal. But it doesn't hang like a Fender and it weighs more.
I've made peace with the LP, and that took a while.
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I have an SG, an LP, and a Firebird used on my previous rock and jamband gigs. They live in their cases and I would probably have sold them by now but all three heavily modded.
I think they are great instruments and never had a problem physically. Strap and stance is the way.
I do have a Sire Larry Carlton L7V, first gen with p90s. Another great inexpensive guitar, dedicated factory: ebony fretboard, rolled fret board, neck joint opened up, bone nut, locking tuners, rounded edges on the body which is also 5mm thinner than the LP. Fun great playing andsounding guitar.
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The Supreme has a thicker (routed) body and is arched front and back compared to a LP std. The one I've played a little felt fantastic.
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