Why Gibson Les Pauls Are So Uncomfortable To Play

**Greentone** · 06-08-2019, 11:56 AM

The PRS sounds good, to me. I would play one.

**zcostilla** · 06-09-2019, 03:51 AM

Originally Posted by John A.

I don't think the chambering really affected the sound, but the extra frets did. The bridge pup sounded great -- just like you'd want/expect a LP to sound. But the neck pup did not have that rich, flute-y sound that LP's typically have. I've played other chambered LP's that sound great, e.g. a friend's LP supreme (which had the same 490R/498T pups as mine) sounds fantastic. I've also not noticed neck dive on the other LP's I've played, especially not the heavier ones.

I wonder why that is... how far is the neck pickup from the bridge? When I added the pickup to my 5th Avenue, I put it the same distance from the bridge as the 5th fret is from the nut because I wanted to capture the harmonic overtones to have the ability to keep it more acoustic sounding if I chose. I moved it around before securing it to the pickguard but it sounded best there. I wonder how much the magnetic field of the bridge pickup affects the tone. Some people swear they could hear the difference between a LP Jr and the Special, but I can’t.

**lammie200** · 06-09-2019, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by zcostilla

...I wonder how much the magnetic field of the bridge pickup affects the tone...

I have Kinman pickups on my Jazzmaster. They are advertised for their low magnetic pull. I don't know anything for sure but the guitar plays like buttah (and it sounds good, too.)

**JPA75** · 08-11-2020, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by strumcat

Entresz: Most people use the strap button, a few use the headstock. What I find far better is to tie a taut shoestring between the headstock and the strap button. Then I clip my strap to the shoestring. It moves freely along the shoestring and finds the best balance no matter if you stand, sit, or lie down. Works perfectly so far and I'm loving it.

Can you add some pictures?

**Robertito** · 08-12-2020, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by Lobomov

I think you're missing the 594 series, which is their official Les Paul model (594 is 24.75" in mm and denotes that it has the Gibson scale length). It has their PAF voiced 58/15 pups . They are available in the Classic Gibson single cut version and a more modern double cut version that has the horn everyone here has been longing after.

24.75" is about 629mm; 594mm is about 23.385".

**jads57** · 08-12-2020, 10:16 PM

You mean hanging a 10 to 15 pound boat anchor around your neck doesn't excite you?

**lukmanohnz** · 08-12-2020, 10:57 PM

I always play seated. That said, while I am a huge fan of LPs I am very much not a fan of their ergonomics. My LP Elegant has ‘tone chambers’ which I’ve always assumed was how Gibson’s marketing department decided to sell the concept of a weight-relieved LP.

**Jabberwocky** · 08-13-2020, 06:47 AM

Originally Posted by Robertito

24.75" is about 629mm; 594mm is about 23.385".

The PRS 594 has a 24.594" scale length. This is the effective scale length of the Les Paul using the Rule of 18 based on the nominal scale length of 24.75". That is, according to the wisdom of Paul Reed Smith.

**coolvinny** · 08-13-2020, 12:41 PM

FWIW I don't have a balance problem with my non-chambered Slaman Pauletta, or a weight problem actually...however the neck is "spanish cedar" i.e. a type of mahogany which smells delicious and is very lightweight. This guitar actually has better balance than my 15" Collings Eastside Jazz (I ended moving the strap on the Collings to compensate).

I mean, of course it's not as light as a hollow body archtop, but the weight is reasonable.

Note: the Slaman's neck is wider than usual with a 1.75" nut width, so you'd think that would add weight...but not the case.

I concede that the Slaman cost a small fortune, but will point out that some R0's and R9's cost even more!!

**Gitfiddler** · 08-13-2020, 02:08 PM

Maybe the issue of comfort has more to do with our outfits, rather than the weight and construction of Les Paul guitars.

This well dressed couple seems perfectly at ease with them, even with skinny straps!

**rpjazzguitar** · 08-13-2020, 02:51 PM

I've read that Les Paul could not bend his right elbow. He'd had an accident and had it set in a position where he could play.

Perhaps that impacted his design.

**icr** · 08-13-2020, 02:53 PM

I don't understand the OP. All 4 of my Les Pauls balance perfectly with the standard strap locations.

**Hammertone** · 08-13-2020, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by Gitfiddler

Maybe the issue of comfort has more to do with our outfits, rather than the weight and construction of Les Paul guitars.This well dressed couple seems perfectly at ease with them, even with skinny straps!

It is said that Gibson chambered some of the guitars provided to Les and Mary, at her request, to make them lighter. It only took Gibson another @40 years or so to introduce chambered Les Pauls.

**Woody Sound** · 08-13-2020, 04:10 PM

I gave up on a bunch of these kinds of shaped guitars because I felt very bad fatigue/pain over my left shoulder. Even a 335 with the strap under the heel is too tight for me. Of course, I am an old guy, but ya gotta try to stay young.

**sgosnell** · 08-13-2020, 04:34 PM

I've read that Les Paul could not bend his right elbow. He'd had an accident and had it set in a position where he could play.

I thought it was his left arm, but my memory is not as sharp as it once was. Certainly one of them didn't bend at the elbow, or so I've read. It's all available on the internet, so it must be true.

Edit: No, you're right, it was his right. Just watched a video that makes it obvious. Oh well, wrong again. I should be used to that, my better half tells me that I am, hourly.

**customxke** · 08-13-2020, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar

I've read that Les Paul could not bend his right elbow. He'd had an accident and had it set in a position where he could play.

Perhaps that impacted his design.

Les Paul had no real input into the design of the guitar, other than the color, and the short-lived bridge design.

**nopedals** · 08-13-2020, 07:03 PM

Les Paul generally played his guitar sitting down with the butt end between his legs. That's the way a lot (most?) players played guitar when the LP was introduced. It was an expensive guitar pitched at pros playing sitting down in big bands, not hillbillies and folk singers. LPs (and 335s) balance very nicely when played that way.

**neatomic** · 08-13-2020, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by nopedals

Les Paul generally played his guitar sitting down with the butt end between his legs. That's the way a lot (most?) players played guitar when the LP was introduced. It was an expensive guitar pitched at pros playing sitting down in big bands, not hillbillies and folk singers. LPs (and 335s) balance very nicely when played that way.

maybe true of older les...in his fat tuesdays and iridium days

but vintage les (when he was designing) with mary, they stood quite often

cheers

**DRS** · 08-15-2020, 11:55 AM

My Les Paul is well balancing standing but butt heavy seated. Wants to slide off my leg. And it's a lightish LP at 8lbs 11oz. My Strat is great seated and standing. Most comfortable guitar ever. My Tele is great sated but not well balanced standing - it wants to sit level.

**Marty Grass** · 08-15-2020, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by neatomic

maybe true of older les...in his fat tuesdays and iridium days

but vintage les (when he was designing) with mary, they stood quite often

cheers

I will bet they were thinking about a lot of other things when on stage besides the weight of their guitars. They worked hard under great pressure. I can imagine the stress of worrying if those cutting edge special effects would work, for example. Still, a little weight relief couldn't hurt, especially with that Bigsby.

**Lionelsax** · 08-15-2020, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by strumcat

I made an amazing discovery tonight. I found out why Les Pauls are so uncomfortable to play.

It isn't primarily because they're too heavy, or because the body isn't sculpted (as I and most others I've talked with always thought). Those two things contribute a little to the discomfort, but aren't the main reason.

It's because they don't have a top "horn" on the body. Hard to believe? You can easily see for yourself.

Tie a trustworthy long shoestring around the headstock, where you'd attach an acoustic guitar strap. run the long end through the (neck-side) hole in your regular guitar strap. Then tie the shoestring firmly to the (neck side) strap button. You now have a dynamically balance-adjustable guitar strap.

In a standing position, with the strap end about 3 or 4 inches out along the shoestring from the strap button, the Les Paul will feel like an entirely different guitar.

No neck dive. No body dive. No rib-gouging. It feels lighter. It's in a *much* better playing position. I could swear it even sounds better.

You can't really leave it that way, because the shoestring interferes with your hand close to the nut. But it explains exactly why Les Pauls just "feel wrong" to many people. The neck-side strap button needs to be about 3 or 4 inches to the left.

I don't know what a good "fix" would consist of, but it seems like some bright young luthier could come up with a modification or accessory to solve the problem.

Your strap is too long, that's it.