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I bought a set of Thomastik-Infeld Jazz Swing flatwounds. After 3-4 times tuning up the strings, the 6 th string started heavily unravelling at the tuning peg. (Fender locking tuners on a strat.) I got a refund and the same thing happened AGAIN!
At $40 per set in Canada I cannot afford to throw out the set because of one string.
Anyone else have this problem?
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03-04-2019 09:19 PM
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If not installed correctly, strings wound over round cores like TI can unwind. Also, if the core breaks at the tuner post, it will unravel and the string will lose all tension. I've got no experience with locking tuners.
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Outside the outrageous cost of them
another reason to never buy them. I am glad I don’t.
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No and it is the only strings I use on my archtops and semi-solid. I also have a hard time understanding why the string would unwind with a locking tuner.
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The strings were installed correctly. As I said, I am using locking tuners, thus not winding string over itself.
Originally Posted by Cunamara
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I can afford the cost, but refuse to pay for something that doesn't work properly-even if it cost $5 per set Originally Posted by deacon Mark
I doubt that I will be buying them in the future. Was thinking of trying the German Optima brand.
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Just to be clear-I meant that the flatwound layer was unravelling from the core. Don't ask me why! Originally Posted by rob taft
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Doug, I understand what you meant but I couldn't see how the flat wound layer unwound from the core unless when tightening down the locking portion, the tuner pierced the outer layer. I don't know how Fender locking tuners work as I don't have them on any guitar but I do have Sperzels and one headless that has a locking headstock. On the headless, I could by over tightening the Allen head locking screws shear the string.
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Your first wind on the wound strings should start with at least a small amount of the silk wrap where the string bends. That will negate the benefits of locking tuners, but if you do that you shouldn’t have this issue.
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I can see how a locking tuner could break the inner core if there aren't several wraps of string before tension occurs on the string. I've used locking tuners with almost no wraps. That puts a lot of stress on the almost 90 degree angle of the bend of the string when it goes through the post hole. Having three or four wraps around the post before tension may protect the inner core.
Just speculation.
TIs and Pyramids make me extra cautious in the number of wraps and on bringing the string up to tune before cutting off the excess. I've lost some flatwound strings due to unraveling in my less cautious days.
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with round core strings you must bend the string before cutting...the outer wraps sit on a round core..so they can possibly slip right off otherwise
also...round core is vintage old tech!!!..never intended to be used with the relative modernities of locking tuners!!!!
almost funny..be like complaining your grandmas old b&w tube tv has no bluetooth!!!
cheers
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I see your point, but I don't crank the locking knob down with all my might, I only finder tighten-snug but not vise grip like! Originally Posted by rob taft
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You may well be right. I'm trying to use the locking tuners as they were meant to be used with 10-46 gauge round wounds. Originally Posted by Marty Grass
However with TI flats, a problem could arise as you point out. Now that I think about it, I only use 3//4 of a wrap; not 3-4 wraps.
I also realized that I can still use my remaining five TIs if I move every string over one and then add an 11 plain to the first string position. A lighter gauge overall, but $40 saved!:-)
Doug
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Would it be a good idea to get a set of non-locking tuners to use?
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Again, I don’t find locking tuners to be the issue. It’s stringing past the silk wrap. If the bare metal wraps around the post, it bends at greater than an acute angle putting the round core under enough stress to break. If it breaks, the winding will unwrap. You can still use locking tuners with TI Swings. You just have to wrap the strings like non-locking tuners. Originally Posted by Doug B
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Ok, but that's a lot of string to wrap around the post. Maybe not. Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan
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You’re right. Depending on the guitar, it can be a lot. You don’t have to use all of the wrapped portion of the string though, just a bit. Originally Posted by Doug B
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I was just wondering about switching to half flats? Could I still get a flat wound sound but the sturdyness of round wounds? Just thinking out loud here.
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I install TI Swings on locking tuners using this method and not tighten the locking pin. This works well without retaining the silk wrapped part of the string and 2-3 winds is all you need.
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db, the problem is not about the outer wrap... roundwounds vs half wounds vs flats...its all about the inner core...thomastik uses (vintage style) round inner cores...that's whats giving you the problem, not the fact that its a flatwound string!.. Originally Posted by Doug B
almost all other flatwounds (all usa made) have hex inner cores..which help to prevent the string from unwinding...so get any usa made flats like d'addario chromes, or ghs, labella etc etc and you will have way less chance of the string unwinding..even with locking tuners
thomastik swings are great strings, but pretty unique...2 wraps of pure nickel flat ribbon on a round core!!..
cheers
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I see your point. I love the sound of Thomastik strings, but maybe it's time to try chromes. Thanks
Originally Posted by neatomic
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In some of my guitars I can't wrap the silk portion of the strings around the post without an excessive number of wraps.
If you have three or four wraps before there is high string tension, the inner core gains a lot of friction advantage that protects that tension from being focused on the right angle of the string at the hole in the post. I hypothesize that this can prevent the inner core from being fractured.
TIs have a round and smooth inner core, which makes that core more prone to break when kinked. Despite its smoothness, there is friction between it and the flat wire windings when the string is wrapped repeatedly in a small circle.
As others have said, don't trim the strings until they are brought to pitch, stretched, then brought to pitch again.
The additional wrapping method has not failed me yet.
I want to emphasize that this same method should be used with Pyramid Round Core flats.
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ive had that with TI flats on locking tuners Originally Posted by Doug B
the Low E got pinched and broke at the tuner
three times !
really annoying ...I sent off for some individual strings
and some non-locking tuners
problem solved
I love TI's
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You mean it's possible to get individual TI strings? I could'nt even find that in the TI web site. Where did you get them? Originally Posted by pingu
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I usually buy my strings through stringsbymail.com. They do sell individual strings. Don't know about sales to Canada or what's involved there.
Thomastik-Infeld Jazz Swing Flat Wound JS113 Electric Guitar Strings
Thomastik-Infeld Jazz Swing Flat Wound JS112 Electric Guitar Strings
Maybe don't lock the tuners, at least on the fattest string(s)? I've never used locking tuners so no real idea as to whether that's possible.
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