Cheap guitar+ great pickup = ?

[lawson-stone]

I used to have an Ibanez semi and had no complaints about build quality. I enjoyed it for a couple of years. I switched to an Eastman semi which I like a lot better, one of the reasons being the finish, which beyond mere looks, makes it feel a lot nicer to play and handle, at least to me. That Epiphone you mention is an attractive model, how is the finish and how would you characterize it in the "feel" department?

I'm talking here about my Peerless made MiK Epiphone Broadway. It feels and plays great in every way. I paid maybe $500 for it and initially put a Seymour Duncan Seth Lover pickup in the neck spot. That was great, but for fun replaced that with the StewMac Golden Age Parson Street, and it sounds very nice as well. The finish is what you expect from a moderate priced Korean guitar. I think it's Poly but I really don't even know. Overall build and fit is quite good.

I also have an Epiphone Zephyr Regent Re-Issue that has the Seymour Duncan Seth Lover in it and I'm also delighted with that guitar. Build quality is fine, finish is without drama, just a nice sunburst but not eye-popping. Neck is typical Epiphone "slightly slimmer" but fretwork is excellent. I imagine upgraded pots and caps would help, but I like it as is with just the pickup change.

BTW I also noted someone referring to solid-body guitars as "slab" which is the prejudicial way of referring to a solid-body, like "plywood" for laminates. We all assume that our preferences are normative. Among jazz players, the carved-top acoustic archtop for many operates as a kind of unquestioned gold-standard for tone, but for many players, it isn't. I love that sound, but you put a magnetic pickup on that guitar, it's a different instrument. There is a good reason many say that a floating pickup on a nice acoustic archtop "ruins" it or sounds thin. Producing an instrument with a sophisticated, complex, rich electric tone that fully exploits what the pickup can do on that body often results in an instrument who's acoustic sound is less than ideal.

[DB's Jazz Guitar Blog]

BTW I also noted someone referring to solid-body guitars as "slab" which is the prejudicial way of referring to a solid-body, like "plywood" for laminates. We all assume that our preferences are normative. Among jazz players, the carved-top acoustic archtop for many operates as a kind of unquestioned gold-standard for tone, but for many players, it isn't. I love that sound, but you put a magnetic pickup on that guitar, it's a different instrument. There is a good reason many say that a floating pickup on a nice acoustic archtop "ruins" it or sounds thin. Producing an instrument with a sophisticated, complex, rich electric tone that fully exploits what the pickup can do on that body often results in an instrument who's acoustic sound is less than ideal.

Excellent post Lawson. To describe classic laminate Gibson guitars (ES series, Tal Farlow, Barney Kessel etc.) as "plywood" guitars is a pretty derogatory term, usually used by inexperienced and uninformed players. Often downright snobbish too. Jazz guitar history and simple ownership statistics among the very best players in the world prove these people wrong.

Carved versus laminate? There is no "better." Only "different."

Personally, I go for the classic ES sound. But that's no secret here.

DB

[lawson-stone]

JUNK!

The pickup is just not that important unless you're talking about different classes of pickups.

For examples, 16k ceramic heavy metal pickup vs a paf style pickup.

When i got my '63 Kessel, it had been gutted and there are gibson burstbucker pickups in it. To my surprise, it sounded like an almost 60 year old guitar should. this pretty much proved my theory that the wood is way more important than things like cloth covered wire, scatter-winding, aged magnets and all the crap the people convince themselves they need to spend money on to get a great guitar tone.

Well I guess that's one way to promote civil conversation.

I'm out of here.

[John A.]

BTW I also noted someone referring to solid-body guitars as "slab" which is the prejudicial way of referring to a solid-body, like "plywood" for laminates..

I think that's assuming the poster's intent without actually knowing it. Plenty of people find nothing pejorative about these terms and/or walk into a conversation unaware that some people think they are pejorative. Certainly the guitar doesn't care what you call it (just don't call it late for supper).

John

[FredC]

Although I greatly respect J. Zucker's experience and expertise, I disagree with his opinion. Having upgraded the pickups on two $1,000 instruments, my experience is that new pickups changed the SOUND of the instruments.

I was an avid audiophile for several decades and took the hobby quite seriously. In the audiophile community, one way to realize the greatest "bang for the buck" was to invest your money at the "points of transduction". That is, the points where mechanical energy is converted to electrical energy (phono cartridge) or electrical energy is converted to mechanical energy (loudspeakers). The point of transduction on the guitar are the pickups.

[m_d]

Although I greatly respect J. Zucker's experience and expertise, I disagree with his opinion. Having upgraded the pickups on two $1,000 instruments, my experience is that new pickups changed the SOUND of the instruments.

I was an avid audiophile for several decades and took the hobby quite seriously. In the audiophile community, one way to realize the greatest "bang for the buck" was to invest your money at the "points of transduction". That is, the points where mechanical energy is converted to electrical energy (phono cartridge) or electrical energy is converted to mechanical energy (loudspeakers). The point of transduction on the guitar are the pickups.

To which I would add room correction, which some stand-alone units, computer-based solutions and AV receivers offer for cheap nowadays, although modern audiophiles will often decry AV receivers as "compromised" compared to stereo amps - and sometimes even decry room correction itself.

Good performance, meaning fidelity in electronics such as an amp or a DAC is good performance regardless of price. It is a constant. Some cheap Chinese DACs measure just as well or better than some overpriced audiophile units and there will be no audible difference. With devices made of wood we have a different situation, although I see what you mean as long as we're talking electric guitars; a guitar might turn into a different animal once amplified.

[FredC]

A receiver? Heaven forbid!!!

Those afflicted with severe audiophilia ONLY consider a separate power amplifier and preamplifier as appropriate equipment for the playback of music sources. As a matter of fact, solid state electronics are viewed with suspicion. Two channels through tube electronics are met with approval.

[zigzag]

Bought a used Epiphone Dot in great condition for $300 and installed Fralin P-92s for around another $300. It plays the same and sounds better than my ES-335 for ~$2,000 less... may even be as good as an ES-330.

[cosmic gumbo]

I put a $250 Angel-sonic gold foil pup in a $35 Silvertone and it sounded like heaven.