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...especially with regard to speakers.
Think terrific living room, but quiet, not crowded living room.
How do you think of optimizing for low volume?
This is not an urgent or even possibly a real problem.
Thanks.
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11-25-2018 02:01 AM
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My personal preference and my performing practice has been for a very long time to use the amplifier as a personal monitor. On stage this meant slanting the amp to aim it at my head where (as it happens) my ears are located and playing at a level sufficient to hear myself and allowing the FOH system to do the heavy lifting.
At home in my refugium my two 5-watt amps are set at head level about 5' apart. My Vibro Champ is to my left and my Ibanez TSATVR to my right. I've been using the Ibanez exclusively since I got it, as it produces lush clean tones at very low levels nicely enhanced by the onboard spring reverb and somewhat ruder tones (ranging from a subtle purr to an unmistakeable snarl on through to its namesake scream) when the onboard Tube Screamer is engaged. I'm pretty sure this little rig would go tolerably loud if I opened 'er up, but I've not thus far felt the need. I'm quite content to be able to explore the musical ideas of the moment without disturbing the Missus or the neighbors at any time of day or night.
Last edited by citizenk74; 11-25-2018 at 02:52 AM. Reason: spelling
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Thank you, k!
I had to look up your Ibanez, it was worth it.
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All my jazz performing is in small venues with the audiences up pretty close and cozy to the band. This is quiet playing with a high regard for the quality of the sound. Nothing is mic'ed, no sound reinforcement, just drum kit played with brushes, bass, and guitar straight into the amp without effects.
I prefer Twin Reverbs for jazz (I have seven Fender tube amps and three of them are Twins). I have tubed them to be quiet... I use low gain tubes in the preamp for V1 (Normal channel gain stages), V2 (Vibrato channel gain stages), and V4 (reverb return gain/additional stage for Vibrato channel), I always plug into the lower gain inputs (the #2 inputs are -6 dB relative to the #1), and I always set the amp's treble and bass tones all the way down, middle tone all the way up.
The net result is an 80 lbs. amp with a relatively over spec'd transformer and pair of 12 inch speakers (so all headroom) for playing at the level of a little practice amp. The tone is perfect; wonderful clarity, depth, character, and warmth. As far as I can tell, most of this tone quality is due to the power-calmed amp working effortlessly without a trace of strain, especially the pair of 12 inch speakers.
At low levels I would suggest that you place technical focus on dynamics and articulation, and similar subtle things that you control with your playing. When you play quietly these things come forward in the sound, and when your amp is set up right for playing quietly, these things will flow through the amp very nicely and present the audience a more intimate evening.
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Thank you, pauln, you've made me think differently.
Also, I realize I haven't played through a 'Twin' since the late '70's!
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I always play at quiet volumes -- the only exception being an annual outdoors gig. I play on different amps and can find a tone I like on any of them from my DV Mark Little Jazz to my Fender Pro Junior to my ridiculously overpowered Musicman 130hd210. I just keep the amps set at a reasonable level and turn the volume on the guitar down. Works great, sounds great. Easy peasey !!
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Can’t beat a tweed Princeton (or 5f2a clone) for low-volume home playing.
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I use a Fender Champ. The cheap reissue thing, the "600."
I think everybody complains they're "too dark." Sound perfect for jazz.
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Master volume is your friend. I use a Fender Princeton Reverb II, with the pre-amp volume high and the master volume low. Loads of tone. Thick picks help as well.
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low volume begins at home...roll back those guitar knobs...vol. and tone...and truly understand what your guitar can deliver
cheers
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Definitely a great amp for low volume jazz sounds, the “600”.
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
I did the mods that came out shortly after the amp did, plus built in a reverb. But the plain stock machine sounds fine in my opinion for a great living room jazz sound.
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I don't think I ever _optimize_ for low volume. I have a preferred sound, which requires a reasonable amount of volume, but that's too loud for most home-based sessions. All else is a compromise. These are my scenarios/solutions: Originally Posted by rabbit
1. Nobody else is home, middle of the day, I can make as much noise as I want: '78 Princeton Reverb (speaker is a Jensen C10Q) on 2 or 3. Neighbors can hear it (I live in an apartment building), but they haven't complained (yet), and I don't want to push it to the point that the would. It's a rare scenario, alas (pesky family and their ridiculous desire to occupy their own home). The PR is by far my preferred sound, especially turned up somewhere in the 4-6 neighborhood. But that's way too loud for home.
2. Family is home, middle of the day - Fender Champion 20, Deluxe Reverb model, gain and volume set just below the "turn that down!" threshold (typically 3-4 on each knob, if it's possible to close a door).
3. Noodling outdoors -- MicroCube (brit combo model), quiet enough for me to hear, but not loud enough to attract attention (I'm practicing, not busking). Also works for evenings at home.
4. Jam session at local pub (no house amp) -- There are typically bass, drums, keyboard, one or two horns, vocalist, sometimes vibes or another horn, or some other instrument. Small room (~30 seats), with the volume kept under control - C20, DR model, gain and volume both at 5-7. Depending on overall volume conditions could go a little louder or a little softer. Loud enough for this setting, but still relatively quiet. The PR would sound better, but it's too heavy to carry that far and it's a very tight bandstand, so smaller is more practical.
5. Living room jams with various combinations of instruments -- either the Champion 20 or PR, volume adjusted accordingly. Did some sessions with bass, drums, and sax with the PR on 3-4
6. Semi-real gigs in medium sized rooms -- PR, volume on 4-6. People used to bigger stages and rooms probably think of that as a quiet scenario, but I haven't done anything louder than this in ages.
7. Late nights or early mornings where I really don't want to be audible to others -- I use my mac and GarageBand, ususally with GB's silverface Fender model and monitor with headphones. Semi-hollow or solidbody guitar to limit acoustic volume.
John
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Passive Vol pedal in the FX loop.... better chance to adjust the volume without sound loss..
Last edited by DonEsteban; 11-27-2018 at 05:19 AM.
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A Fender Twin Reverb with a master volume does cleans beautifully. With the volume and MV both set around 5, treble and bass set near 1, and plugged into the lower gain jack I’m fine in the living room. Unfortunately, I need to diagnose a bad cap or resistor before I can use it again. Originally Posted by kawa
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Wow, your living room floor joists are strong enough to support a Twin? Originally Posted by KirkP
What symptom are you getting from the bad component?
X-155 through a twin must be great.
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More often than not i use a fender twin or a princeton reverb set low. But i gave up on low volume amp sounds years ago, i just don't like them. If the guitar has any acoustic volume usually i 'll play unplugged at home..
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The joists are fine, but I doubt I’ll haul it to any more gigs. Originally Posted by ptchristopher3
I’ve forgotten the symptom that made me unplug it, but seems like it was a pop sound and hum. I changed the main power supply caps a few years ago, but it’s probably one of the smaller electrolytics I didn’t get to. It sounded great. I need to dedicate a chunk of a day to fixing it.
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