Where are the Hofner full body, (single) florentine cutaway specimens?

[feet]

Sometimes I think of them as a sort of German version of heritage: endlessly talented, but not particularly interested in, you know, being successful. They do what they do and that's it. I respect it, but as a guy on the wrong side of the world, it'll just never happen for me.

Not that I could ever even afford what I'd actually want from them to begin with. But they could at least make things easier on guys like us who stare at the monitor and sigh.

I should hate that pick guard more than I do. In a vacuum, maybe it shouldn't be. On that, works a lot better than it should. Not convinced that's the right choice, but you could do a lot worse. Is that a gibson pick guard?

[Hammertone]

I agree - Hofner and Heritage are both capable of making lovely archtop guitars, have both been remarkably clueless in terms of their marketing, and have both made some really odd guitars. In the past 35 years, Heritage has made/makes MANY more guitars than Hofner.

Here are a few Hofner full body, single florentine cutaway guitars:
Hofner 477 E2 1980/81 | Stefan | Reverb
Hofner President 1966 Florentine Brunette | Nick B's | Reverb
Rare 1966 Hofner President Cherry Sunburst Vintage | Reverb
HOFNER 477 1980 Redburst | Bellaiche's Gear Garage | Reverb

And I have two of these old, finished thinline bodies in the bunker. One of these days, I'll set them up with Hofner necks and hardware and sell them.

[QsDuesBlues]

Seems like there are pretty much zilch.
Out of the four models I know of with a single florentine (4577, 471, 477, and president (with florentine), I have only been able to find several on the market. I gather it Is not as easy a joint for luthiers to make work, as a Venetian.
I guess maybe not too many of these were made until the 70s, a period when, I would guess, archtop guitar manufacturing was not very high priority.
Mainly, though, it seems the 471 and 477 are as rare hen's teeth. They look so cool, I'm completely spellbound.

Maybe I've answered my own silly questions, maybe not.
But still would love to know anyones thoughts about these and learn more.
Thanks very much.

Told myself last year I wouldn't be buying yet more guitars ........but with over a dozen Attila Zoller albums/CD's in the rack and a languishing AZ-48 pickup in the cupboard..........I couldn't resist this charming old Hofner 477 ! I pick it up this weekend and shall post a few more better resolution pics then.........

[Hammertone]

Told myself last year I wouldn't be buying yet more guitars ........but with over a dozen Attila Zoller albums/CD's in the rack and a languishing AZ-48 pickup in the cupboard..........I couldn't resist this charming old Hofner 477 ! I pick it up this weekend and shall post a few more better resolution pics then.........

That looks dead stock. Show the other side, with the brilliant heel joint! The tailpiece has some oddness - the two inside lengthwise members should extend and be attached to the base of the tailpiece. I've seen this on one other Hofner, also a 477. Maybe the boys over at ABM ran out of brass tubing that day.

[QsDuesBlues]

Will show more pics when I collect it tomorrow (the photo isn't mine). That 'Beatle Bass' tailpiece simplification could be simply a manufacturing streamline. I'm actually more mystified as to why the change here to those shallow depth neck joints, as also seen on some Hagstrom acoustics and Italian-made archtops like my Goya Rangemaster 103R - was that a manufacturing 'streamline' too ? Surely there's no sonic advantage over a standard neck joint ? Or was it some sort of bolt-on - with hidden bolts ? I'd like to see an 'exploded view' graphic of what's actually in there.........

[Hammertone]

... I'm actually more mystified as to why the change here to those shallow depth neck joints, as also seen on some Hagstrom acoustics and Italian-made archtops like my Goya Rangemaster 103R - was that a manufacturing 'streamline' too ? Surely there's no sonic advantage over a standard neck joint ? Or was it some sort of bolt-on - with hidden bolts ? I'd like to see an 'exploded view' graphic of what's actually in there.........

That standard neck/body joint on these models is so different to the partial-depth-only one on the 1970's big-body model 477 Hofner florentines. Why did Hofner then opt for that style - was it purely cost-cutting? I don't have luthier insight into these things but it seems that those 477-type neck joints - so unattractive on what appears an otherwise beautifully built instrument (one was on UK E-Bay 2 weeks ago), and looking a bit like a bolt-on without the bolts - must surely make for a decrease in tone, resonance and structural stability? I notice they didn't repeat this joint on the subsequent 'Zoller' AZ signature models.

As previously noted, that neck style IS a bolt-on without the bolts. "Hofner used a single hook-eye bolt-on neck for awhile, but that bad design was thankfully abandoned. I'm sure that in-stock necks that had been made for that style of neck joint were subsequently glued in. It's possible that whoever was making the necks was never told to stop making them that way, until someone noticed and the change was made back to more conventional glued in necks for all archtop guitars. No doubt they didn't waste whatever in-stock necks they had, and used them up. There is no decrease in tone, resonance and structural stability if that style of neck is glued into a properly cut neck pocket - it just looks stupid and wrong."

Here are a couple of loose Hofner necks from the period when they were using the single hook approach - top is a 14th fret joint archtop neck, bottom is a 16th fret joint neck.

[QsDuesBlues]

As previously noted, that neck style IS a bolt-on without the bolts. "Hofner used a single hook-eye bolt-on neck for awhile, but that bad design was thankfully abandoned. I'm sure that in-stock necks that had been made for that style of neck joint were subsequently glued in. It's possible that whoever was making the necks was never told to stop making them that way, until someone noticed and the change was made back to more conventional glued in necks for all archtop guitars. No doubt they didn't waste whatever in-stock necks they had, and used them up. There is no decrease in tone, resonance and structural stability if that style of neck is glued into a properly cut neck pocket - it just looks stupid and wrong."

Here are a couple of loose Hofner necks from the period when they were using the single hook approach - top is a 14th fret joint archtop neck, bottom is a 16th fret joint neck.

Thanks for the pics and explanation, Hammertone - I hadn't forgotten that you posted earlier - I'd just forgotten your answer ! Interesting for me to finally see the inside view of those joints for the 1st time ever too. My old 1966 Goya 103R has a similar outward appearance at the neck joint - and that guitar has a terrific resonance for a thinline, so yes, I realise those 'shallow' neck joints can indeed work well - as witness the lovely sound of a blonde Hofner 477 on the YouTube vid "Wyn's Hofner 477".

I collect the guitar tomorrow. Will give it a thorough clean up, new phosphor bronze strings to begin with, and see how it reacts to some string tension. It seems have last century's corroded strings on it, and has been stored away for years without a case, apparently - but still seems to be in OK condition from the photo. Will post up a few pics on Sunday after that initial cleaning session (I'm getting a sort of childhood pre-Christmas feeling here......!)

And here's that Goya bolt-on shallow-joint 103R model - customised !

[QsDuesBlues]

Collected the E-Bay Hofner 477 on Saturday after a nightmarish trek across a hugely over-populated and gridlocked East London - with markedly visible disparity between the poorer urban and city-rich inner areas - and the contrasting persons' demeanor therein - and all less than 2 miles apart. London's apartment blocks of 40 years go now have additional double-height blocks built on the once green spaces in between them.........glad I got out in 2000.

Spent most of Sunday taking all off the Hofner bar the machine heads, cleaning everything twice over and screwing it all back down again. There's a huge grey dust ball rolling around inside like some sort of alien life form - will remove it with a pair of my Sister's knitting needles! Layer of filth on fingerboard - lovely wood grain swirls underneath though, once the muck was removed. Body sadly has some dents, scratches & grazes around the tops' perimeter and on the sides - but back and rear of neck/headstock thankfully mostly unscathed -

- and all of it outshone by the totally bonkers 'in-your'-face' Hofner Redburst-into-yellow finish! (it's mega-mojo really...... but what on earth were they thinking of ? .........)

Acoustic tone is nice but not great, getting better with daily playing, and those Hofner necks - noticeably narrow in the upper reaches on so many models - take some getting used to. My last Hofner purchase was a 'President 66' with a 54mm end-of-fingerboard width - this one measures even less at 53mm - so string spacing on the bridge is limited to 50mm - 2mm shorter than a Tunamatic. Not my preference really - but, as with so many German makers in the 50's & 60's (e.g. the almost parallel-looking fingerboard of some early Framus 'Billy Lorento' thinlines) - that's how Hofner made 'em!

Which brings me to dating the guitar: One Hofner enthusiast website says the model 477 (with its huge 17 & 1/4"x 20 & 1/4" x 3 & 5/8" body dimensions (surely on of the biggest models after the Committee ?) was made from 1969 to 1994. I'd put this one at early 70's - but with no serial number and the inner label being just a brown smudge of dubious-looking organic matter - it's hard to tell. The Musikkeller-Dorsten website has an identical model pictured, but again no date.

The action is comfortably low for acoustic playing - but bridge adjustment has no further downward movement (other than removing the 2mm deep thumbscrews).

If I wanted a neck reset in future years, say for lower action flatwound playing with a floating pickup - and if this guitar turned out to be a very early model 477 with that short-width neck joint 'hook' mechanism described by Hammertone (with photos) earlier in this thread - would my luthier need precise surgical instructions from him in real time, so as not to go wildly astray or beyond the point of no return with an 'unfamiliar territory' neck reset.?.......or do I worry unneccessarily ?

The neck is pretty straight, and action still acceptably low after fitting with 11 - 52 phosphor bronze strings, tuned a whole tone down as the guitar hasn't been played it seems since last century - just shoved away in a cupboard to corrode in unhappy isolation. Welcome back to the world, Hofner 477 !

Some pics then - big, bold, and 'in-your-face!'

[QsDuesBlues]

Well - a week of playing, on-line research and physical familiarity with this big old Hofner 477 archtop (17 & 1/4" lower bout - though online specs say 17") has made quite a difference to my initial opinion.

Out of the case, I thought it was charming, a bit eccentric colour-wise, grubby and tarnished but retrievable, quirky, luckily crack-free and undamaged - and probably not easy to play in the upper regions with its' narrowish end-of-fingerboard width (53mm) - limiting the bridge string spacing to 50mm.

But .......you do get used to changes - and the guitar does have that 'certain something' that brings out the music, the enthusiasm, and the "no, I can't put it down just yet" feeling !

And after a whole days' thorough cleaning and adjusting when first acquired - followed by a weeks' playing - I've become a real fan of this guitar and appreciate its ever-improving tone and playability (plectrum playing really brings out those classic archtop sounds, not nearly so evident with my fingerstyle playing earlier in the week). So I've certainly revised my opinion of the tonal capabilities of this instrument - and its playability - from what I originally thought.....

The fingerboard - now the fret surfaces have shined up and smoother over - lends itself well to really agile, fast playing, and I finally see where Hofner were coming from with their typical 25 & 1/4" scale length and dimensions - though in a perfect world I'd still prefer that end-of-fingerboard width to be the more reassuring 55mm rather than 53mm..........

So - not just a quirky old Hofner with a slightly wacko finish - but a really nice, capable, quality instrument - in fact I'd quite like to track down another 477 in blonde, selling off a few less often used quitars to pay for it.

Sorry too that compilers of the excellent book 'Hofner Guitars - A History' - even for the later expanded edition - weren't able to track down either a Florentine 'President 66' or a '477' photo for their book.........no matter, here's one of my own.....

[QsDuesBlues]

You don't see this model very often - Hofner 'President 66' thinline florentine - (currently up on U.K. E-Bay for past few days at £850- o.b.o.) - and - wowee! - it seems quite well preserved - and appears to have a nice wide comfortable fingerboard too......any takers ?

[Hammertone]

The subject of a recently acquired, post-millenial, thinline, hollow, Florentine-cutaway Höfner Thin President guitar (the red one, below, from 2016) came up recently, so, I found this old thread. Mine's the white one, from 2014. Some interesting differences.

This thread popped up with a new like. So... here's a bit more fun. For fans of Florentine cutaway Hofner archtops, there were a couple of very short production runs of hollow thinline Florentine cutaway Hofners done in Germany over the past five years. Fischer did a few before he retired. No one was paying any attention, so he built them very much like the thinline Presidents of the late 1960s, with 14th fret neck-body joints, manly laminated necks and unique body binding. One or two in sunburst (for an artist), three in red, and four in white. After he left, a few more were completed, with 16th fret neck/body joints, in matte red. Probably no more than a dozen guitars in total, but chances are that the odd one will pop up here and there on ebay, Reverb and similar sites, for anyone who cares. All six of you. Here's mine:

[Hammertone]

Höfner mini-humbucking pickups are very underwound, and work great as floating pickups on big archtops, but I didn't like them on this guitar. Now, the guitar has a NOS set of full-sized Höfner-branded Schaller humbuckers, and sounds fantastic.