Digital, Tube, or Hybrid Guitar Amp

**viccortes285** · 06-03-2018, 11:24 PM

I was 100% Tubes in Amps and still do like the tone of my DRRI's a 68 and a 65 BF.
A week ago I added line 6 Firehawk FX into the mix and love the Hybred tones, line 6 was the leader in modeling. So in conclusion Digital, Tubes and Hybreds are here to stay.

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**cosmic gumbo** · 06-05-2018, 07:34 PM

As the current owner and user of a vintage 1968 Fender Deluxe Reverb for almost 20 years, I find the Fender SCXD to be the best of both worlds - digital modeling and 6V6 tube goodness. Fender really knows how to model their different Fender amp voices. But, when you dial in the Dumble tone, you're smiling too...

**ruger9** · 06-05-2018, 08:41 PM

I think for "quiet" home use, modeling not only serves a purpose, but may even be better than tubes (or even SS?). I will always have a modeler or SS amp for quieter home use. They have the tone, just not the feel (which comes from moving air).

When you need to move air, I still think tubes rule.

Altho I do really want to try out one of the Blues Cubes/Artist Cubes. I've heard nothing but raves about them, even from pros who have tried them.

**jzucker** · 06-05-2018, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by ruger9

I think for "quiet" home use, modeling not only serves a purpose, but may even be better than tubes (or even SS?). I will always have a modeler or SS amp for quieter home use. They have the tone, just not the feel (which comes from moving air).

When you need to move air, I still think tubes rule.

Altho I do really want to try out one of the Blues Cubes/Artist Cubes. I've heard nothing but raves about them, even from pros who have tried them.

i can move more air with my modeler and a pair of QSC K12 speakers than a pair of twin reverbs.

**jads57** · 06-05-2018, 10:14 PM

Has anyone tried the Atomic Ampli Firebox pedal? $299 new, and from the reviews and what I can surmize from Youtube it sounds pretty amazing. But playing it Live is really the only way to find out.

**Greentone** · 06-05-2018, 10:34 PM

At this point, I am just too retro to change. When I am in a Kenny Burrell mood, I grab a big archtop, a tweed Deluxe and head to the gig. When I am in a Jim Hall mood, it's an archtop and a Polytone.

The variable in the mix is that I often play a Fender guitar...but the amps stay the same.

**cosmic gumbo** · 06-05-2018, 11:49 PM

Originally Posted by jads57

Has anyone tried the Atomic Ampli Firebox pedal? $299 new, and from the reviews and what I can surmize from Youtube it sounds pretty amazing. But playing it Live is really the only way to find out.

My buddy Bongo uses one in his AC/DC tribute band, it does the trick.

**jads57** · 06-06-2018, 01:34 AM

I wonder how the Clean Tones are? The demos leave a lot to be desired, since they are geared to the mass market of amateur rock players and home recording use. I totally get it for their bottom line and mass appeal, but it would help to have a more versatile Pro Player demonstrate it's capabalities for both live and recording uses.

**pauln** · 06-06-2018, 03:11 AM

I have seven Fender tube amps, all old style, and love each one. All my performing is clean (old jazz standards, original jazz tunes, R&B, Motown, old popular tunes, old rock & roll, and blues)... except the occasional classic rock show; then I just take a light over drive pedal for some tunes.

I do have something that I have been enjoying that suppose might be termed "extreme modeling" - an old Roland Sound Expansion M-OC1 from 1985 that has 255 orchestral instrument patches that I can play with my guitar using the old first version of the Sonuus G2M (guitar to MIDI) interface as a MIDI controller. The Sonuus is not polyphonic, so no chords, just single notes at a time.

I have discovered that this is a wonderful and entertaining way to discover and explore new lines and ideas. Playing the sounds of trumpets, flutes, violins, etc. seems to remove some of the "guitaristic" bias of approach from my ears and makes it much easier to find new things - things I would never think to try on the guitar which, after development through the sounds of other instruments, may be then transferred back to the native guitar to discover that they continue to work there, too.

**ruger9** · 06-06-2018, 06:17 AM

Originally Posted by jzucker

i can move more air with my modeler and a pair of QSC K12 speakers than a pair of twin reverbs.

Not saying you can't move air with a modeler, just saying moving air with tubes sounds better

Especially if there's any gain involved (not sure how many people here still rock

)

**ruger9** · 06-06-2018, 06:18 AM

Originally Posted by Greentone

The variable in the mix is that I often play a Fender guitar...but the amps stay the same.

For some reason, that surprises me. Tele?

**jzucker** · 06-06-2018, 06:56 AM

Originally Posted by ruger9

Not saying you can't move air with a modeler, just saying moving air with tubes sounds better

Especially if there's any gain involved (not sure how many people here still rock

)

I guess i don't 100% agree. I do agree that tubes sound subjectively better but not by much and the advantages of getting your sound at any volume level with the ability to fine tune to a degree not possible with a conventional tube amp give you the chance to sound way better with a modeler. I use gain on my fusion tones and I've never gotten a better tone than when I use a modeler. For rock tones, yeah if I had a backline like SRV or Hendrix and could crank them to 10 on the gig, I'd probably get a better blues/rock tone than what I get out of the modeler but even in a large club these days, you can't use that setup and the modeler reigns superior for that type of work IMO.

**jzucker** · 06-06-2018, 06:58 AM

Plus, guys like holdsworth used SS amps and modeling for many of their recent albums. Tim Miller uses plenty of gain and has switched to axefx. His tone is fabulous. Before he used axefx, he was using Line 6!

**ruger9** · 06-06-2018, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by jzucker

I guess i don't 100% agree..

Well, ALL this is opinion anyway. There is no "one answer to rule them all."

That's what keeps things interesting.

If there WERE "one answer to rule them all", we wouldn't need gear forums! LOL

**Greentone** · 06-06-2018, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by ruger9

For some reason, that surprises me. Tele?

While I prefer to use an archtop, sometimes the venue worries me and I grab a Tele or Strat. I can get jazz tones with either...but the archtops sound better to me. Not sure the audience can reliably tell.

**jads57** · 06-06-2018, 11:32 AM

There have been a very few Tube amps that definitely have a very pleasing warmth and are touch sensitive. These are usually lower wattage Class A amps but not always. I think much has to do with th pushing the power tubes to get that Feel and Tone.
I always thought that if you could somehow use a variety of small amps and slave them for more volume, that would be the ticket.

That said, I agree with Jack Z in his assesment of nowadays unless you have the luxury of being John Mayer or such, you're better off with the SS and Modeling amps,devices,software,etc available. Especially given the minute differences.

**Boston Joe** · 06-06-2018, 06:29 PM

For me it sort of depends on the application and what you're looking for.

For pure sound, tubes.
For flexibility and portability, modellers/hybrids
For reliability and toughness, solid state

For home practice: Modeller
For rehearsal: Solid state
For low-end gigs and jam sessions: Solid state
For special gigs: Tubes
For home recording: Modeller
For studio recording: Tubes

Mind you, I keep my sound pretty consistent. I'm not looking to cover a million different sounds. If I were in a rock cover band or something, I'd probably gig with a modeller.

The thing with tubes is, there's something tactile about them, that I don't feel from modellers. I'm sure it's some kind of placebo effect thing, but modellers don't "push back" the way tubes do. This is mostly with overdriven sounds. For clean jazz sounds, modellers are just fine, and don't feel any different from regular SS amps, IMO.

**mad dog** · 06-06-2018, 06:50 PM

They all have their place. (Apart from modelling stuff, which just doesn't interest me ...) I mostly go with tubes, keep trying SS. My polytone MB II has proven its worth steadily over the last year. It goes better with some guitars than others. With the two I usually practice jazz on - a '62 Guild X-50 and a mid 50s Silvertone 1427 - it's a great match. Especially with that Silvertone. P13s can be pretty murky sounding at lower volumes. Not so with the MB II. Not just better than my tube amps at lower volumes with that guitar, it's perfect.

**viccortes285** · 06-06-2018, 07:02 PM

I have been a tube man for 50 years and still own Fender Deluxe Reverb Amps, but I love the tones of my Firehawk FX. The two gives you the best of two worlds. In time Tubes will be gone as Modeling Amps keep getting so close.

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**jzucker** · 06-06-2018, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by jads57

There have been a very few Tube amps that definitely have a very pleasing warmth and are touch sensitive. These are usually lower wattage Class A amps but not always. I think much has to do with th pushing the power tubes to get that Feel and Tone.
I always thought that if you could somehow use a variety of small amps and slave them for more volume, that would be the ticket.

That said, I agree with Jack Z in his assesment of nowadays unless you have the luxury of being John Mayer or such, you're better off with the SS and Modeling amps,devices,software,etc available. Especially given the minute differences.

adam rogers uses a pair of deluxe reverbs for small gigs. The sound is amazing!

**jzucker** · 06-06-2018, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Joe

The thing with tubes is, there's something tactile about them, that I don't feel from modellers. I'm sure it's some kind of placebo effect thing, but modellers don't "push back" the way tubes do. This is mostly with overdriven sounds. For clean jazz sounds, modellers are just fine, and don't feel any different from regular SS amps, IMO.

I was a dedicated tube guy for over 40 years. I do hear the interactive push back with modelers...At least with the axefx/ax8 and kemper. A lot of nashville guys have switched over to kemper for both recordings and live gigs. They epitomize semi-clean/overdriven tones. To me that says a lot...

**viccortes285** · 06-06-2018, 08:23 PM

I use a 68 & a 65 Fender Deluxe Reverb Amps
Now using a Firehawk and really sounds anolog
I find the two DR's enough or I mic it in the PA for larger venues.

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**ruger9** · 06-06-2018, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

I was a dedicated tube guy for over 40 years. I do hear the interactive push back with modelers...At least with the axefx/ax8 and kemper. A lot of nashville guys have switched over to kemper for both recordings and live gigs. They epitomize semi-clean/overdriven tones. To me that says a lot...

I've heard great things about the Kemper, but also about the Roland Cubes, re: "pushback" and "realistic feel"

**vintagelove** · 06-07-2018, 05:54 AM

Only tubes or SS for me. No modeling or digital (unless it has analog pass through), something about the feel and dynamic range are altered in the ad/da conversion.

While I haven’t heard a clean tone that “I” particularly love (I like warm and fat), I wouldn’t be surprised if on a Kemper or the like, that I could dial in a tone. Also, there are certainly gigs that can justify them on logistics alone.

To each their own.