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Hi folks,
i am close to order to DR clone to some Amp expert who askes me if i want to increase the DR power to 30w.
I play jazz music and also funk. For my jazz quartet i know 20w is enough but with my funk band we play in a studio with very bigs amps and i really don't know if tomorrow, with my own amp, 20w will do the job or not and keep a clear sound at higher volume that i play in a jazz context.
one consequence with 30w is that valves which are 6v6 will moove to 6L6.
is there a real impact on quality sound ?
thanks in advance for your advices.
Julien
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04-10-2018 10:30 AM
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I have a bias (!) for 6L6 and would enjoy the extra headroom, so the 30 watt would get my pick.
That said, I recognize that if I did have experience with the other circuits, my opinion could possibly be different.
But generally, with the extra power, you'd be better able to keep up with a drummer without always delivering the "fully overdriven" sound.
Extra headroom is good for Jazz, in my estimation. And 30 watts would be more flexible in that it is possible to add dirt to a clean amp, not the other way around.
Funk band with very big amps? Maybe the 20 watt would be just be making faint, blatting sounds overpowered by the din of big amps.
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i much prefer the warm cleaner tone from 2- 6l6's...its like half a fender twin...
the 6v6's will get you the classic deluxe tone...a little grittier with less headroom
both great really, but i opt for the cleaner..can always stick a pedal in front to get the gritty
cheers
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I think it depends on the details of how the amp is modified. Some people put 6L6 tubes into a Deluxe reverb and just re-bias the amp, without changing any other components. This gives the amp a little more clean headroom, and slightly changes the overdriven tone of the amp, but it doesn't really add power (which is limited by the amount of current the amps power supply section can supply and by the output transformer). A friend of mine did this to his Deluxe, and it still sounded pretty much like a deluxe, but where a stock DR starts distorting at 4 or 5 on the volume knob, it stayed clean up to maybe 6-ish. OTOH, there are amps with different transformers designed to take 6l6 tubes. These truly do yield more power (they're essentially vibrolux amps in a DR box). There also some that are designed to take either and switch between two different power levels. If your guy is talking about something like that, then it will be appreciably louder and cleaner than a stock DR. It's probably best to ask the guy who's building the amp exactly what he would do, and how much louder it would make the amp.
Originally Posted by Zheul
John
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Hi John, it is exactly what you are talking about.
He proposes me to put a Vibrolux inside a DR to get a 30w power with the weight of the DR (or not to far) with only one speaker and it is why he needs also to change the tubes.
I love the sound of DR and i am afraid to loose it with the Vibrolux schema.and in the other hand i 'll be glad with 30w.
is his proposal the real heaven amp or a bullshit compromise without the DR sound nor vibrolux sound ?
thanks
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Vibrolux Reverbs are great sounding amps, but louder and cleaner than a DR. It's hard for me to say whether it's right for you, but it's not a BS compromise in my opinion. Originally Posted by Zheul
John
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It's not really a DR clone when you get rid of the 6v6 tubes.
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Reading the above, the Fender Hot Rod George Benson comes to my mind. 40 Watt tube with 2 ea 6L6 and with 20 kg still relatively portable. Good for jazz combo, but funk??
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Essentially the question is Vibrolux vs Deluxe reverb. Which one would you prefer? They are quite different amps besides the weight difference of the fender models. Unless you prefer the deluxe sound, the vibrolux does a lot of things better (clean headroom and breakup).
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Thanks all for your replies,
you are rigth Alter, we may resume my question to this point: Fender vs vibrolux for jazz and Funk music.
I like the DR sound and i don't know the vibrolux one.
DR is a classic amp used by many players in the history, i have less information about vibrolux.
I am going to music shop for a try next saturday but Any advices are welcome
Thanks
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The Vibrolux Reverb is one in a whole range of Fender amps (DR, VR, Twin Reverb, Super Reverb, Pro Reverb, Showman Reverb ...) that from the blackface era forward have the same basic pre-amp section, but somewhat different output sections, power supply sections, and speaker configurations. You can (sort of) think of them all as the same amp, scaled up and down to meet various musical needs, and with some variation in tone based on speakers, overall size, and some differences in circuits. The big difference between the DR and the others is that it uses 6V6 power tubes, while the others use 6L6's (which necessitates different transformers). They all have some variant on the "fender sound" when played clean, which is mainly a function of the pre-amp section. As they're turned up louder, they diverge more. Originally Posted by Zheul
The Vibrolux Reverb is the lowest powered of the 6L6 amps in this range, and is probably the one that's most similar to a Deluxe Reverb (like the DR, it also has no mid-range knob), apart from speakers (1x12 vs 2x10). A VR amp in a DR box with 1 12" speaker, would basically be a slightly louder and cleaner DR. Peter Bernstein is probably the best known Vibrolux Reverb user.
John
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John thank you very much for this clear and détailled answer. If i well indurstand a VR clone in a DR box with one speaker will sound very close to a DR but with a Better headroom. It sounds very good for me. Do you Think that thé tries i am going to do this weekend will Help me bécause i will comparé à DRR 65 reissu to a 68 custom VR ( my clone will be à orig’al BF) ?
regards
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I don't know. I haven't played through the 68 custom VR. From reviews and descriptions online, I get the sense that the Custom VR is somewhat different from BF circuit, but I have no direct experience. Originally Posted by Zheul
John
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Yes, a souped up DR type with 6L6s does sound different than the original version with 6v6s. Whether that's better or not is something you'll have to decide for yourself. For my taste, not an improvement. I've heard such modded DRs. They no longer sound much like the stock DR, and don't sound much like VRs either.
MD
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I have the upgraded vibroverb version form Vintage Sound amps that started as the DR clone. Not nearly enough headroom in a band with keyboards and drums in the original configuration, but much more usable at 35 W. For what it’s worth, I never really bonded with the classic deluxe tone, but prefer supers and twins, along with pedals.
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A lot of people like that configuration, and it's curious for me that Fender never sold that amp - some even do it in a Princeton cab, which is smaller and lighter.
As others said, the preamp is the same - it's all that comes after that changes. You can think of your amp as a 1x12 Pro Reverb or a "half-Twin". If you like a Twin Reverb sound, it shouldn't be very far.
If you're doing the amp from scratch, I would also ask for other "simple" mods.
1) Reverb on both channels
2) A bright switch for each channel, the "vibrato" channel on some Deluxes comes with the bright switch always one, and it can be too bright.
3) I would change the mid pot on the "vibrato channel", from 10K to 25k or 50k. The stock value is useless, but when you use higher values you can go from blackface scoop to a more mid-heavy sound, which can be good for jazz.
4) If you don't mind adding a little weight, I believe you can go up to 45w headroom with 2x 6L6 (using a bigger transformer). You'll thank the extra headroom, later.
5) A baxandall tone stack on the "normal" channel, so you can have two different sounds - you can rob one from old Ampegs.
1, 2 3 or 4 are very easy mods, that your tech should accommodate with no problem or a big price increase (except for extra or upgraded parts). I guess number 5 is not hard either, but that's up to your tech.
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No wrong decision here. I think your right hand technique will determine your sound more than the change to 6l6.
If you will not mic the amp in live situations, then maybe go for the VR option. If you mic the amp and allow the sound person to control your room volume, then stick with the DR option.
FWIW, the last rock shows I played, I used a Princeton. Put a mic in front of it and had no difficulty “keeping up” with the drums and keys. Sounded sweet.
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Would you mind let me know who/where I can buy such an amp (DR with 6L6)?
I have been thinking about a DR but prefer 6L6.
Thanks in advance!!!
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Check out the Dr. Z 'Therapy' amp line. 35 watts/Dual 6L6/5AR4 Rectifier. No Reverb, but who doesn't have a 'verb pedal? Originally Posted by r_cc_c
Dr. Z Amplification | Therapy
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6L6s will definitely sound different from 6V6s. If you're playing funk, I think that difference will work for you in terms of the cleaner headroom that has already been mentioned. I replaced the 6V6s in my Egnater with 6L6s precisely for more headroom. Additionally, the -Vs have a more cluttered midrange, while big-glass -Ls tend to have a more even freq response to my ears.
I can't speak knowledgeably about Vibroverbs, never have owned one or even played through one.
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Thank you All for your analizes and comments,
i ordered today to my tech a 30w DR with 6l6 and wgs G12C/S.
added mods included:
master volume
reverb and trémolo on both channels
brigth switch on both channels
footswitch to contrôle reverb/tremolo and Channel
now i havé just to wait for a couple of weeks (until mid of june)
thanks again
julien
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I think you have chosen well. Let us know how you like the amp when you get it! Originally Posted by Zheul
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Want funk? Throw a Mutron in front of it. Originally Posted by hotpepper01
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