12 fret archtops

**mr. beaumont** · 12-28-2017, 07:56 PM

So as a few of you might know, my wife bought me a cheapie "blues box" for Christmas.

12 fret archtops-20171226_120612-01-jpg

Now, this is FAR from a fine instrument, but it sounds pretty good and plays great. What I've noticed in just a few short days is how much I like the compact size, and the 12th fret connection makes a full scale instrument feel small and very comfortable...

So, just wondering...does/did anybody make a 12 fret archtop...cutaway? No? Pretty much all I can find is the earliest of Gibsons...

**Hammertone** · 12-28-2017, 10:39 PM

13 fret archtops are available from Erich Solomon.
I bet he'd be thrilled to make a 12 fret archtop.

**Hammertone** · 12-28-2017, 10:42 PM

Wenzel Rossmeisl's Roger guitar company made a few 13 fret archtops as well between 1947 and 1953. I'l dig up pix of a couple of mine.

**neatomic** · 12-28-2017, 10:54 PM

12 frets are great!..traditionally called "cannons"!!!...best way to get big acoustic sound out of a parlor/small guitar architecture...

classic design

work with the strings and set up (nut & saddle) for max best sound

enjoy

cheers

**mr. beaumont** · 12-28-2017, 11:11 PM

Yeah, this lil fucker is something...loud as hell, likes to be played hard. What a cool guitar for $150.

At the very least, there's a "good" single 0 in my future.

**feet** · 12-29-2017, 12:53 AM

glad to hear you're getting along so well with the little guy! i'm a recent convert and it is pretty great. still pondering the best way to record it. as it so happens, one of my giant guitars is a 12 fret slope shoulder dread. and it's transcendent. a few things to note about 12 fretters (or mine, at least):

-they are cool af

-they sound bigger because the bridge is moved closer to the center of the body

-you run out of fretboard faster. i mean, obviously, but depending on the neck joint and carve... hope you don't capo much up there

-the fretboard gets wide faster. neat if you need the space, possibly problematic if you don't. yoke capos can run into issues

-your left arm rests differently. its pulled in closer to the body, so everything is more compact

i'm sure there are valid reasons the concept was mostly phased out in favor of 14 fretters, so maybe they aren't for everyone. if you are extra persnickety about things you may want a few trial runs, first. and good luck finding a 12 fret archtop. i've literally never heard of one, not that i ever asked. interested now.

**entresz** · 12-29-2017, 04:34 AM

Early round hole L4s were 12 fret guitars .

**TKO** · 12-29-2017, 05:25 AM

I've noticed the 12 fret connection makes a more compact playing feel thing too - I think that's why I like to play Classical guitars. And if I'll commission a new GJ guitar it will be a 12 fret big mouth. The only thing is that if you play a lot of stuff beyond the 14th fret it will be a stretch..

**Alter** · 12-29-2017, 05:32 AM

Yeah, this lil fucker is something...loud as hell, likes to be played hard. What a cool guitar for $150.

so how is it for fingerstyle stuff? It s pretty rare for a guitar to respond well to hard playing AND softer playing too, but these kind of guitars are supposed to play well for fingerstyle, old blues etc.

Asking cause i 'm shopping around for a medium priced similar acoustic for fingerstyle blues style playing, possibly even a resonator guitar, and recording king is pretty popular

**bgillon** · 12-29-2017, 10:11 AM

This thread made me think of my son’s acoustic which I haven’t seen in a few years. Larrivee made a Pete Anderson signature 12 fret maple OM in the late 90s, early 2000s. Really interesting acoustic that can be pounded and played softly. For my son, anyway, it had a really solid acoustic jazz capability. He often played as the lone accompaniment for a pretty large youth choir. That little guitar could thump. Not an Archtop, but modeled after one.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**omphalopsychos** · 12-29-2017, 11:10 AM

I don't know about 12 fret archtops, but if you look to upgrade the parlor, I recommend the Waterloo WL S. In my opinion, the very best of the Waterloos. 12 fret and slotted headstock. It's the same as the WL S Deluxe but without the fancy appointments.

**feet** · 12-29-2017, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by bgillon

This thread made me think of my son’s acoustic which I haven’t seen in a few years. Larrivee made a Pete Anderson signature 12 fret maple OM in the late 90s, early 2000s. Really interesting acoustic that can be pounded and played softly. For my son, anyway, it had a really solid acoustic jazz capability. He often played as the lone accompaniment for a pretty large youth choir. That little guitar could thump. Not an Archtop, but modeled after one.

larrivee is a super underrated maker and they make a damn good guitar. i think parlors are one of their strong points, actually.

Originally Posted by omphalopsychos

I don't know about 12 fret archtops, but if you look to upgrade the parlor, I recommend the Waterloo WL S. In my opinion, the very best of the Waterloos. 12 fret and slotted headstock. It's the same as the WL S Deluxe but without the fancy appointments.

those waterloos seem super cool. i thought the black jumbo was their best looking on, but i wouldn't discount the hog top, either.

**DRS** · 12-29-2017, 12:16 PM

A lightly built all solid wood 12 fret acoustic archtop with a cutaway would be a great guitar.

**Woody Sound** · 12-29-2017, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by entresz

Early round hole L4s were 12 fret guitars .

Not to nitpick, but I assume you meant oval hole. (Gibson DID make some early round-hole archtops.)

Anyway, you are correct, I owned one of them. They switched from 12 fret to 14 fret some time around 1928 or so. Below is a 1927, followed by a 1929. FWIW, I didn't think it sounded very good. Kind of "tubby."

12 fret archtops-l4-1927-jpg

**mr. beaumont** · 12-29-2017, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by omphalopsychos

I don't know about 12 fret archtops, but if you look to upgrade the parlor, I recommend the Waterloo WL S. In my opinion, the very best of the Waterloos. 12 fret and slotted headstock. It's the same as the WL S Deluxe but without the fancy appointments.

Playing someone's Waterloo a few months back started all of this

I may end up with one of those, eventually...

Yeah, pretty much all I've found would be the old Gibsons...were those 24.75" scale?

The idea intrigued me for an archtop, as I thought it would mellow them out and add some bass...not ideal for playing rhythm guitar, but maybe nice for playing solo at home/recording.

But for now, this little guy will work just fine.

**Greentone** · 12-29-2017, 04:34 PM

I believe Lloyd Loar developed the 14-fret archtop. Prior to '23-'24, Gibson's archtops (all round/oval hole) were 12 fret. L-1, L-2, L-3, L-4.

**neatomic** · 12-29-2017, 05:04 PM

young (circa 1st gateway trio lp)- john abercrombie

12 fret archtops-gettyimages-74252225_master_photo-getty-images_michael-ochs_web-jpg

cheers

**Woody Sound** · 12-29-2017, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by Greentone

I believe Lloyd Loar developed the 14-fret archtop. Prior to '23-'24, Gibson's archtops (all round/oval hole) were 12 fret. L-1, L-2, L-3, L-4.

I *think* most were actually 13 fret.

**Max405** · 12-29-2017, 05:22 PM

Jeff,
there is one person who could make a 12 fret guitar sound great, and I’m sure it’s you. I know I couldn’t.
Would it be to much to ask the musical methuselah of the midway to record a nice little number for us?
Something about deep dish pizza perhaps?
Play some double octaves For us..

Joe D