Looking for a backup arch top / hollow body

[zirenius]

Dear folks of this forum,

I hope that you will indulge me and forgive me for asking a rather frequent question yet again, but with a spin.

In essence, I am looking for a suitable backup guitar for teaching and playing out in addition to my Elferink Moderne. The Elferink is not a REALLY expensive instruments as far as archtops are concerned, yet I am a bit scared to take it to 4 days a week.

Ideally, the guitar should at most be around 1000,00€ (located in Germany). If the backup is an arch top, I would like it to be 17", have a scale length of 25 or 25 1/2" and a nut with of 42.5 or 43mm. So far, I have only been able to dig up either an Epiphone Broadway or a Peerless Manhattan / Jazz City as meeting (most of) my requirements in form factor.

Am I missing any model that sits around 1000€ (new)?

An obvious alternative would be to get a Telecaster for teaching, but I have a lot of acoustic guitar students and a couple of electric guitar students, so a bigger archtop with satisfying acoustic voice fits the bill a bit better...

So yes, any ideas besides the guitars I mentioned above? I am not opposed to buying used, if anything were available from a respectable seller...

Thank you guys so much and have a nice day,
Sebastian

[Doublea A]

I like D’Angelico, Epiphone and Ibanez Guitars which are all within that price range


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[zirenius]

I like D’Angelico, Epiphone and Ibanez Guitars which are all within that price range


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Thank you. So do I. But Is there an Ibanez offering with the specified scale length, body size and nut width?
funnily enough, the EXL-1 seems to no longer be available in Germany. Epiphone Broadway with different PUs might be an option...

[Hammertone]

How about one of the Hofner Bluetone archtops?
They are all 17" deep-bodied laminated archtops with 25 1/2" scale.
They are made in China and are of similar quality to a variety of other Chinese-made archtops from D’Angelico, Epiphone, Ibanez, Washburn, Aria, etceteras. Probably made in the same factory as some of those.

Thomann has them listed at € 666 - € 725, depending on which version:

Hofner Blue Tone Super-Luxe
Hofner Blue Tone Super-Luxe
Hofner Blue Tone Super-Luxe-E2
Hofner Blue Tone Super-Luxe-E2

[mr. beaumont]

Gotta give Hofner some props on those, I haven't seen 'em in person, but they sure look great!

[Hammertone]

Gotta give Hofner some props on those, I haven't seen 'em in person, but they sure look great!

They are perfectly good budget archtops. I particularly like the subdued design details of the line, and some of the hardware is the same as is used on the much more expensive German-built archtops. In the absence of any marketing push, they haven't made much of a dent, but they have been around in one form or another for @10 years.

[zirenius]

They are perfectly good budget archtops. I particularly like the subdued design details of the line, and some of the hardware is the same as is used on the much more expensive German-built archtops. In the absence of a any marketing push, they haven't made much of a dent, but they have been around in one form or another for @10 years.

Thank you for the remarks on the quality of these. I saw them on Thomann but had no further information available. Will have a look at the specs!

[christianm77]

I agree with Jeff, the Godin kingpin is a really good shout if you can live without fancy stuff (like cutaways)

[jazzbow]

Epiphone Emperor Regent, Washburn J600, Gretsch G 100 CE. All 25.5" scale.

[zirenius]

I agree with Jeff, the Godin kingpin is a really good shout if you can live without fancy stuff (like cutaways)

I have only heard good things about them, but unfortunately, the nut width, scale length and Body size are a little off for me... or do they offer different options?


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[zirenius]

Epiphone Emperor Regent, Washburn J600, Gretsch G 100 CE. All 25.5" scale.

Thanks. Two more to Check out.


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[BeBob]

If you're familiar with the Epi Broadway then you'll understand the Emperor Regent. Same guitar, difference is two set-in pups on the Broadway, one neck mounted floater on the Emperor Regent. The Broadway is still in production but the Emperor Regent has been discontinued. Either one would make a good backup guitar, IMO.

Both Epis have thin D shaped necks. The necks on the D'Angelico EXL-1 are much heftier D shapes, almost a C shape, and feel very full in comparison to the thin feel of the Epis. I own both the Emperor Regent and the EXL-1 and I find the EXL-1 easier to play because my hand cramps on thin necks. But I think that the Epi has a significantly woodier tone than the D'Angelico so I refuse to let mine go. The D'A top sounds a bit thicker and stiffer to me.

[christianm77]

I have only heard good things about them, but unfortunately, the nut width, scale length and Body size are a little off for me... or do they offer different options?


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I think they are extremely playable and well constructed guitars, but it's funny how some people get hung up about that stuff....

I would choose a better made guitar with different specs every time.

But - it's not everyone's cup of tea sound wise... Who do you listen to the most? That'll make it easier to make a recommendation.

[zirenius]

Sorry, there might be some redundancy in the following post.

If you're familiar with the Epi Broadway then you'll understand the Emperor Regent. Same guitar, difference is two set-in pups on the Broadway, one neck mounted floater on the Emperor Regent. The Broadway is still in production but the Emperor Regent has been discontinued. Either one would make a good backup guitar, IMO. Both Epis have thin D shaped necks. The necks on the D'Angelico EXL-1 are much heftier D shapes, almost a C shape, and feel very full in comparison to the thin feel of the Epis. I own both the Emperor Regent and the EXL-1 and I find the EXL-1 easier to play because my hand cramps on thin necks. But I think that the Epi has a significantly woodier tone than the D'Angelico so I refuse to let mine go. The D'A top sounds a bit thicker and stiffer to me.

Thank you for clarifying the Epiphone range, the Regent does sound intriguing.

I think they are extremely playable and well constructed guitars, but it's funny how some people get hung up about that stuff....
I would choose a better made guitar with different specs every time.
But - it's not everyone's cup of tea sound wise... Who do you listen to the most? That'll make it easier to make a recommendation.

Oh, I fully agree. It's just that I found something that feels really comfortable in the dimensions and specs of the Elferink I now play - which is why I try to stick to something similar (if possible). The Kingpin has been so widely recommended to me by friends offline and online alike that I'd be a fool not to try it out. I am just trying to not overlook any options here due to being unaware of them.

For example, I really did like the QC on the Ibanez guitars when I tried acquiring an arch top in the first place about 14 months ago. (the attempt that ultimately lead to me selling a bunch of stuff to be able to afford the hand carved Elferink I now play daily) As my second instrument is a baritone guitar with a huge scale length and I switch back and forth in the middle of a set, I like the guitar in regular tuning to also be on the longer side in terms of scale length.
The other two types of specs are a gut feeling, as I enjoy them on my current guitar. I'd love to get an Ibanez Artcore or Artstar with a scale length and body size close to what I play now... I don't think I saw any of them being close, though.

Long story short, thank you very much for recommending the Godin. ;-) Players, whose tone I adore the most? I guess that I like Julian Lage's sound on his arch top the most, with Peter Bernstein being a close second. (even though both sound a lot different, of course) AFAIK, his Manzer is a 16' laminate with set in humbucker and longish scale, isn't it? I unfortunately don't know a lot about Peter's guitar to be honest...

The 17' size of my current arch top feels really comfortable to me, so I am shying away from smaller guitars like the Ibanez AFC 151 (which also gets high praises on here) a little, but I might be adhering to wrong premises here... I might add that the acoustic sound of the guitar is a very important point, as I don't always have an amp available when teaching guitar (only for a couple of hours every week, but I prefer just carrying one guitar with me).

Thanx for all your input!!

[christianm77]

Sorry, there might be some redundancy in the following post.



Thank you for clarifying the Epiphone range, the Regent does sound intriguing.



Oh, I fully agree. It's just that I found something that feels really comfortable in the dimensions and specs of the Elferink I now play - which is why I try to stick to something similar (if possible). The Kingpin has been so widely recommended to me by friends offline and online alike that I'd be a fool not to try it out. I am just trying to not overlook any options here due to being unaware of them.

For example, I really did like the QC on the Ibanez guitars when I tried acquiring an arch top in the first place about 14 months ago. (the attempt that ultimately lead to me selling a bunch of stuff to be able to afford the hand carved Elferink I now play daily) As my second instrument is a baritone guitar with a huge scale length and I switch back and forth in the middle of a set, I like the guitar in regular tuning to also be on the longer side in terms of scale length.
The other two types of specs are a gut feeling, as I enjoy them on my current guitar. I'd love to get an Ibanez Artcore or Artstar with a scale length and body size close to what I play now... I don't think I saw any of them being close, though.

Long story short, thank you very much for recommending the Godin. ;-) Players, whose tone I adore the most? I guess that I like Julian Lage's sound on his arch top the most, with Peter Bernstein being a close second. (even though both sound a lot different, of course) AFAIK, his Manzer is a 16' laminate with set in humbucker and longish scale, isn't it? I unfortunately don't know a lot about Peter's guitar to be honest...

The 17' size of my current arch top feels really comfortable to me, so I am shying away from smaller guitars like the Ibanez AFC 151 (which also gets high praises on here) a little, but I might be adhering to wrong premises here... I might add that the acoustic sound of the guitar is a very important point, as I don't always have an amp available when teaching guitar (only for a couple of hours every week, but I prefer just carrying one guitar with me).

Thanx for all your input!!

Ah OK.... So, actually quite an acoustic, but modern archtop sound?

TBH I think it's quite hard to achieve this exact sound on a budget.

The Godin Kingpin may not be your sort of thing... I think your best bet would be an Eastman, but these tend to be more expensive obviously (although I am a big fan of their 371, which is like a resonant 175... Laminate though.)

OTOH, I would also recommend the Godin Composer and Jazz models as strong guitars. Both are more expensive then your budget, though, the composer is around a grand IIRC.

I did try a Freshman Archtop the other day which I was very impressed by.. Just shy of a grand.

[christianm77]

PS: all these guitars are more than loud enough acoustically for teaching

[mr. beaumont]

I think it's hilarious that I reccomend the Godin so much that Christian posted that he agreed with me...even though my post in this thread didn't mention it!

They made a two humbucker cutaway version. The godins have a really pleasant acoustic tone, but that might be due to the regular P90''s NOT being cut into the top...

[christianm77]

I'm getting my threads confused lol

At least I didn't say 'get a telecaster'

[John A.]

I have only heard good things about them, but unfortunately, the nut width, scale length and Body size are a little off for me... or do they offer different options?


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If you can play one you should try it. The neck measurements are only a tiny bit off your requirements. And if you're teaching students with acoustic guitars, the Kingpin will probably work better than the others you mention (it's remarkably loud for laminate guitar with a set pup.

John

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[zirenius]

Thank you once again everybody, I will be heading out to the next major guitar store around this area tomorrow and take some time with the instruments mentioned in this thread. I really appreciate the variety of opinions offered here.

[zirenius]

And the search is over. I will post a NGD with pictures this weekend, but I ended up spending a little more and reconsidered what I was actually going for. After ordering a Peerless unseen that felt superb, but unfortunately was not what I was looking for soundwise and had some fret issues that could have been fixed, I tried some Ibanez artcores, a Stanford Fat 75, an Ibanez LGB30, a higher end Hofner and 2 newer Gibson ES175s. Ultimately, I snatched a pristine ´97 Ibanez PM100 that did it for me... Thank you guys for all the input that I ultimately ignored...


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[rio]

And the search is over. I will post a NGD with pictures this weekend, but I ended up spending a little more and reconsidered what I was actually going for. After ordering a Peerless unseen that felt superb, but unfortunately was not what I was looking for soundwise and had some fret issues that could have been fixed, I tried some Ibanez artcores, a Stanford Fat 75, an Ibanez LGB30, a higher end Hofner and 2 newer Gibson ES175s. Ultimately, I snatched a pristine ´97 Ibanez PM100 that did it for me... Thank you guys for all the input that I ultimately ignored...


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Congrats! The PM100 is such a great guitar. As good or better than most 175s, at least if we aren’t talking vintage. Very comfortable too. I always thought it looked wacky but the look grew on me and I have only received positive comments about the look (and a lot of positive comments about the sound - this one guy I play with is disappointed if I bring another guitar to gigs other than the PM100).


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[zirenius]

Congrats! The PM100 is such a great guitar. As good or better than most 175s, at least if we aren’t talking vintage. Very comfortable too. I always thought it looked wacky but the look grew on me and I have only received positive comments about the look (and a lot of positive comments about the sound - this one guy I play with is disappointed if I bring another guitar to gigs other than the PM100).

thank you! Ah well, why spam the forum with a seperate post. So yes, the PM is starting to settle in. Here are some pictures! This is a gorgeous instrument that played so well just from the shelf. It's a 1997 PM-100 that belonged to a collector and showed up in my local music store. To me, it's in perfect condition - I will have my "usual suspect" check the setup next week and maybe get it to play even better.

What else to say? In November, I wanted to set out for a cheap guitar that I could take out for teaching. Thus, I gave a lot of thought to different guitars and tried quite a few. In the end, I decided on this one used, as it offered a lot more than the competition (I know, unfair - as this sold for more than 2.5k € new...). I'm as happy, as I could possibly be. When I picked up my first proper "jazz guitar" in 2005, I actually wanted this one but let people nudge me towards an Ibanez GB. (also a beautiful instrument, but I was always just a little curious about this one, too!) So yes, got to play some more and open a second post for what I bought for Christmas... :-D

[christianm77]

Like a 175 with a tone pot that works? ;-)

[Alter]

grats on the new guitar! This thread made me feel guilty for using this one so much for teaching hehe