Could Floor Model Sales be the New Normal Price for Gibsons?

[Thumpalumpacus]

Right now you can buy a new Gibson archtop at a used price. The CME deal will end and there will be many who will look back at the missed opportunity.

As noted above, I'm skeptical of Gibson's commitment to all-out quality. That's not even taking into account BeBob's thinking that these might have issues that show up later down the road. I get what he's saying, even if I can't say he's right (I don't have near enough woodworking experience to offer a worthwhile opinion), and that sort of thing would worry me too, especially with the defects I've seen on some of their guitars.

[vinnyv1k]

Live today no guarantee of tomorrow and no guts no glory. I have been buying Gibson’s for 45 years. The bad ones I have bought were bad right out of the gate except for maybe lacquer checking down the road. All these guitars are plywood which is darn stable. I sent back 2 CME VOS 175’s with tail rises and neck binding cracks. I was refunded immediately. Not out a penny. Buy a used guitar and see how easy it is to get your money back a few days later when you discover a problem. These CME deals are zero risk. If you can’t spot a bad guitar from good best to buy new with full warranty at full map price. Buying used is higher risk than these CME deals IMO. I got 5 great guitars. Tomorrow might make 6. If not I just send it back for a full refund. They also pay the shipping back if the guitar is not up to snuff.
Who else does that on a used guitar ?

Down the road if you want a great used 175........pm me.

[GNAPPI]

Is it coincidence that I am seeing a flood of gits on Ebay that mysteriously look like they were just bought in the CME deals and they are profiteering?

Coulda, shoulda, woulda :-)

[Max405]

A lot of unfortunate people bought 175’s for around $4000 over the past couple of years. If they sell those used in excellent condition, they should get around $2500 for them which is about the same price they would have gotten if the CME sales didn’t happen.
I don’t believe the CME sale should set a new reduced market value for 175’s. These 175’s were offered for a short period of time and they FLEW off the shelves. When Gibson starts up production on 175’s soon, They should carry the same list price they have right now. Provided they don’t do something stupid like paint them - in, Battleship Grey or Desert Storm Camouflage. Hey, you never know..

[wolflen]

some of us remember when quality was inherent in the products we bought and some brand names were equated with quality...before the demand for "millions" of les pauls..you would not even worry about the quality..sadly not today..my recent shopping experience with a top of the line fender telecaster was a large disappointment of not only the quality of the guitar but of customer service..and the lack thereof..

Fender now is also selling a line of "inexpensive" guitars..and is also having financial problems

I am now shopping other brands-much smaller companies that seem to bring back some faith in quality control and customer service..

I also remember when General Motors built good cars..then they didn't..then they went broke..now they are hoping to match the quality of Toyota..

[Jazzstdnt]

Sounds like somebody wishes Gibson prices would drop down and stay down, lol.

I would say this:

Whosoever owneth the Gibson Guitar Company and maketh an American L5, shall always sell them at a price point that doth not resemble an Asian counterpart.

[silverfoxx]

[QUOTE=Max405;823119]A lot of unfortunate people bought 175’s for around $4000 over the past couple of years. If they sell those used in excellent condition, they should get around $2500 for them which is about the same price they would have gotten if the CME sales didn’t happen.

Joe ,I bought a ‘59 VOS Es 175 early 2015 cost here £4000 ($ 5386 ) worst guitar I had purchased. Vinny also
bought the same model at the time . Little wonder I have little regard for it.
But it appears the new generation are a different breed .
We won’t see low prices in Europe tho’ I suspect. No sour grapes , it’s good to hear that you are all benefitting
from the current CME deals. It defies logic that the 175 does not appear in the 2018 availability lists according
to reports here.

[vinnyv1k]

I bought a new L5 this year w/warranty for $7K. Yes the price tag stung like a bee sting till I strummed the 1st chord.
L5's are not worth the price till after you buy one.

[Stringswinger]

I suspect two things:

1. The 175 is not dead yet. While it may not be in Gibson's 2018 list, watch for it somewhere else (Crimson division?) or for a mid year splash. It is far too iconic to be discontinued.

2. Gibson may be producing guitars for this "floor model sale" as we speak. While the Memphis plant is up for sale, the land is there, the labor is there (Gibson would not want to scare it's creditors into pushing Gibson into Chapter 11 by laying off the Memphis staff) and the materials are there and have already been paid for. I would bet that Gibson will keep the labor busy and use up already purchased materials to keep making these guitars so long as CME is able to sell them. Once the factory sells or the materials are used up or the creditors are paid, I bet the floor model sale ends.

But like everyone else around here, I am just guessing. It sure would be nice if we had a Gibson middle manager on this forum who could tell us the scoop under an assumed screen name!

[vinnyv1k]

I had Crimson make me a custom 175. It is far superior than a Memphis one in fit and finish. I would gladly pay a upcharge for Crimson made. You are then talking L5 quality.

[citizenk74]

I suspect two things:

1. The 175 is not dead yet. While it may not be in Gibson's 2018 list, watch for it somewhere else (Crimson division?) or for a mid year splash. It is far too iconic to be discontinued.

2. Gibson may be producing guitars for this "floor model sale" as we speak. While the Memphis plant is up for sale, the land is there, the labor is there (Gibson would not want to scare it's creditors into pushing Gibson into Chapter 11 by laying off the Memphis staff) and the materials are there and have already been paid for. I would bet that Gibson will keep the labor busy and use up already purchased materials to keep making these guitars so long as CME is able to sell them. Once the factory sells or the materials are used up or the creditors are paid, I bet the floor model sale ends.

But like everyone else around here, I am just guessing. It sure would be nice if we had a Gibson middle manager on this forum who could tell us the scoop under an assumed screen name!

Bingo!

[Longways to Go]

I find the whole CME "floor model" sale to be a bit perplexing. I got mine shipped in yesterday (ES-175) and it's as new and nice and perfect as any guitar I've ever seen. So the "floor model" terminology isn't really accurate -- it's really just a new guitar minus the lifetime warranty. I can live with that.

I can't see how competing retailers are going to be able to sell any 335's or 175's with this going on. Companies like Sweetwater probably aren't very happy with Gibson right now. It will be interesting to see how long the deal goes -- maybe through the Christmas season? Also, it will be interesting to see if prices on 335's and 175's are impacted in the long run, or if they jump back up.

All in all, I feel like these guitars are a steal.

[Stringswinger]

I find the whole CME "floor model" sale to be a bit perplexing. I got mine shipped in yesterday (ES-175) and it's as new and nice and perfect as any guitar I've ever seen. So the "floor model" terminology isn't really accurate -- it's really just a new guitar minus the lifetime warranty. I can live with that.

I can't see how competing retailers are going to be able to sell any 335's or 175's with this going on. Companies like Sweetwater probably aren't very happy with Gibson right now. It will be interesting to see how long the deal goes -- maybe through the Christmas season? Also, it will be interesting to see if prices on 335's and 175's are impacted in the long run, or if they jump back up.

All in all, I feel like these guitars are a steal.

Considering we are getting these CME guitars well below wholesale, dealers like Wildwood and Sweetwater must have some kind of a rebate deal going on with Gibson on the ES models. Otherwise they have grounds for a lawsuit.

[vinnyv1k]

I tried getting deals from the other guys and they are not budging. Definitely not a fair playing field for the other dealers. The fact that CME owns Reverb may have something to do with it as Gibson need to move these guitars fast. Gibson has already sold the Memphis plant.

[Stringswinger]

Gibson Guitar Factory site near Beale Street attracts buyers

December 13 is the closing date on the Memphis plant. The same group buying the Memphis plant is also buying some of Gibson's Nashville Real Estate.

Gibson is downsizing. Buy them while you can.

[Bluedawg]

Gibson's situation seems a little tight at the moment ... but dumping overstocked inventory is pretty normal practice for any industry.

Having overstocked inventory does appear to be a symptom of bigger problems, but time will tell.

I visited the Memphis Gibson factory about a year ago and they were cranking out the laminated ES guitars of various models.

They said they had a huge order for their ES models from Japan at the time. I have to wonder if that big Japanese order fell through at some point and left them hanging with all of these guitars.

The Memphis plant seems to have stopped using their entertainment facilities some time ago as well. I'm guessing they weren't able to tap into the Beale Street tourist traffic deeply enough to make it work.

If we can get a good run with a strong economy for a few years I'm optimistic the guitar market will recover to some extent .. although I don't think it will look anything like it did during the 80s, 90s and 00s.

If the younger folks can get good paying jobs and move out of mom's basement lots of things could change for the better.

[wmachine]

I find the whole CME "floor model" sale to be a bit perplexing. I got mine shipped in yesterday (ES-175) and it's as new and nice and perfect as any guitar I've ever seen. So the "floor model" terminology isn't really accurate -- it's really just a new guitar minus the lifetime warranty. I can live with that.

I can't see how competing retailers are going to be able to sell any 335's or 175's with this going on. Companies like Sweetwater probably aren't very happy with Gibson right now. It will be interesting to see how long the deal goes -- maybe through the Christmas season? Also, it will be interesting to see if prices on 335's and 175's are impacted in the long run, or if they jump back up.

All in all, I feel like these guitars are a steal.

Considering we are getting these CME guitars well below wholesale, dealers like Wildwood and Sweetwater must have some kind of a rebate deal going on with Gibson on the ES models. Otherwise they have grounds for a lawsuit.

I tried getting deals from the other guys and they are not budging. Definitely not a fair playing field for the other dealers. The fact that CME owns Reverb may have something to do with it as Gibson need to move these guitars fast. Gibson has already sold the Memphis plant.

You guys are late to the party. This has been discussed on numerous other threads here and on other forums. They are not "floor model" or "used". They are designated that for selling purposes. CME bought out Gibson MEMPHIS warehouse stock. The explanation from CME (that some chose not to believe) is that Memphis overproduced. These are what are in the Gibson warehouse and do include some that are not perfect. So Gibson doesn't want to sort them out, nor take the warranty work that would come with some of them. So they sell the whole lot to CME without warranty. CME then takes on any warranty liabilities. CME agrees to sell them as used/floor models, so they are not considered new, and not restricted to any new guitar pricing policies.
It is generally agreed (and certainly by CME) that at these prices, it is worth the culling. So by far most are brand new, and not out of the box any longer than for a quick look and replacement of the Gibson warranty card with the standard CME packet. In some cases, CME has given setups and some pics, but all of that was not figured into the prices, it was just CME trying to help customers.
So yes, it is a bit of a crap shoot for getting a good one. CME makes sure you don't get burned, though, if you're willing to play along.
Also, a buyout like this is nothing new, it is somewhat routine. What makes this different is that it is of a much larger scale than usual.
Now personally, I have no reason not to believe all of this. I don't feel anything is misrepresented with this deal. But the conspiracy advocates can take it from here.

[johnnytuinals]

Guess the ones that got a 2017 ES will be the last that will be made at the Memphis plant.
Think that they have made NO 2018s there?
I am glad I got a New ES 335 natural figured and happy its a 2017 instead of the 2016s that was listed.........JT

[wmachine]

Guess the ones that got a 2017 ES will be the last that will be made at the Memphis plant.
Think that they have made NO 2018s there?
I am glad I got a New ES 335 natural figured and happy its a 2017 instead of the 2016s that was listed.........JT

Not that it matters, but I think you'll find you have a 2016 model made in 2017.

[johnnytuinals]

I agree yea can be right,,,butttt I need to check out the serial number to see the real date....JT

[ovidius]

I am about to buy a Cme es175 from Spain. I wonder if we will see these discounts in Europe , what do you think? I believe we wont so I am almost decided. The price after paying shipping and almost 30% tax is still 2/3 of what I have to pay in Europe.

Anyone in the forum has bought from europe and can share his experience?

As return is not an option from here, and I have read that many of you had to return some guitars because of deficient of Quality Control, but I guess that the probabilty of important qc issues is low. Specifically for the basic es175 model (not vos) has any had to return it?
Thanks

[JPG]

I am about to buy a Cme es175 from Spain. I wonder if we will see these discounts in Europe , what do you think? I believe we wont so I am almost decided. The price after paying shipping and almost 30% tax is still 2/3 of what I have to pay in Europe.

Anyone in the forum has bought from europe and can share his experience?

As return is not an option from here, and I have read that many of you had to return some guitars because of deficient of Quality Control, but I guess that the probabilty of important qc issues is low. Specifically for the basic es175 model (not vos) has any had to return it?
Thanks

Hi!

I bought mine a couple of months ago (from Portugal) and have been playing it happily ever since :-)
I can confirm the 2/3rds price part, too.
In my case CME where very supportive, the guitar arrived in 5 days once it was released from their export paperwork... which took about 3 weeks(!)
The package was perfect, the guitar's a stunner.
About QC it has a couple of minor things... a rough pickguard on the edges, the nut setup a little on the low side. But nothing I can't deal easily and nothing that would make me think of sending the guitar back.

It was a great deal for me, and I wish you good luck! :-)

[waltf]

Mine will probably arrive monday (es175 vos) but i was assured i can send it back, and i found out that when i do that i can even recoup the vat. I made them an offer, and even with shipping and vat it’s about 400 euros cheaper than the cheapest used 175 vos overhere. I’ll let you know when it arrives.

[ovidius]

Thanks waltf. For sure you vos will arrive perfect, let us know.

You mean you dont have to pay the shipment back to usa and they refund the shipping?

Obrigado (thanks) Jpg , thanks for the info, I saw the photos of your guitar and it looks great

[iim7V7IM7]

I am fortunate own a variety of both electric and acoustic guitars: (electric) archtop, semihollowbodies and solidbody and (acoustic) archtop, flat tops, nylons and gypsy...