What's the cheapest way to experience a CC pickup?

**Woody Sound** · 08-25-2017, 04:56 PM

What can I buy that gives the classic CC sound, that I can easily flip with little or no loss? I would just like to spend a little time with one to see if I like it. I looked at some used ES-175-CCs, but they're expensive.

I would sorta rather try a whole instrument than install one of the humbucker-ring-mount ones in my Gibson or Sadowsky. But if that's the best option, then maybe.

**omphalopsychos** · 08-25-2017, 08:28 PM

Lollar's CC has an option for dog ear mount. Hypothetically you could try it out on your es 125.

**Woody Sound** · 08-26-2017, 01:06 AM

Originally Posted by omphalopsychos

Lollar's CC has an option for dog ear mount. Hypothetically you could try it out on your es 125.

Thanks, but I'm not sure why you think I have a 125, I have humbucker guitars.

**blille** · 08-26-2017, 01:35 AM

IIRC vintage vibe does a CC that fits in a humbucker route.

There's also this if you have something more classic

And the CCs for teles are also popular

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**ThatRhythmMan** · 08-26-2017, 07:46 AM

The least expensive way that I have seen to experience a CC pickup of a design similar to the original, not an approximation, is with one of the ES-175 CCs from the late 70s, like you mentioned in the original post. I've seen them go for less than $3k on eBay, but they don't come up very often.

**omphalopsychos** · 08-26-2017, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by Woody Sound

Thanks, but I'm not sure why you think I have a 125, I have humbucker guitars.

Sorry about that. Had confused you with someone else!

**Woody Sound** · 08-26-2017, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by omphalopsychos

Sorry about that. Had confused you with someone else!

Thanks, np, just didn't understand

**GNAPPI** · 08-26-2017, 02:19 PM

Lollar has a low output CC type in a HB route. How true it is to the originals, well you know how marketing guys are.

Charlie Christian for Humbucker Route: Lollar Pickups

**guido5** · 08-26-2017, 05:17 PM

I have never had an original up close and personal, but the Lollar Humbucker package CC pickup is pretty wonderful in my AR371.

**neatomic** · 08-26-2017, 05:27 PM

despite the best intentioned hype, there is no way to get to the "real" cc tone without the original huge magnet cc pickup..the design was integral to the sound...not to say a modern cc looking pickup in a humbucker or tele neck shell can't sound good..but it ain't the same...(for those that really want to nail it!)

and remember even the original cc pup underwent changes....

here's barney k on it-

cheers

**archtopeddy** · 08-27-2017, 02:31 AM

Originally Posted by neatomic

despite the best intentioned hype, there is no way to get to the "real" cc tone without the original huge magnet cc pickup..the design was integral to the sound...not to say a modern cc looking pickup in a humbucker or tele neck shell can't sound good..but it ain't the same...(for those that really want to nail it!)

and remember even the original cc pup underwent changes....

I think what neatomic says here is true. I have an original late-30's ES-150 with an original CC pickup, a 28' Gibson L4 with a Seymour Duncan CC pickup, and an Eastman 175-style guitar with a Lollar humbucker CC. Each sounds good; each sounds different. There is a sound to the original CC pickup, however, the other two don't quite match. It's that certain dark, woody sound you hear on Charlie Christian recordings. The Duncan gets close and the Lollar while sounding great, is almost too defined and clean sounding -- more of a modern sound.

I think the actual guitars the pickups are mounted in make a world of difference on how the pickups sound. I think the Duncan, with it's three-screw mount sitting in a 16 inch 1928 Gibson archtop is more similar to the setup of the original ES-150 guitar. As a result it gets closer to the original sound.

Even with the original ES-150, pickup height makes a big difference in the sound. Recently, as noted in another post on this site, my original CC pickup has lost some of its magnetism and volume. I raised the pickup from flush against the top to closer to the strings and it made a big difference in the volume. But now the sound is a bit cleaner losing some of its dark and woody charm. I think I'll take it back to where it was and raise the amp volume instead. My point here being, pickup height placement plays a big role in the sound with the original-design pickup.

As for your quest for a least expensive way to get a CC pickup guitar in your hands, this may sound crazy, but maybe you could find someone with such a guitar and borrow it for a couple of weeks. Maybe you have an interesting humbucker guitar that you could swap out for a few days. I know you may be thinking "what?!" but I've actually done this before with friends and it's been a good learning experience all around. Obviously, you'd need to find someone you trust and who trusts you, but you never know, it might be worth considering.

**GNAPPI** · 08-27-2017, 03:44 AM

Jeez, there isn't EXACT sound between the same Gibson 57 classics made in the same year in different model gits or for that matter in identical gits made in the same year. ES-175's come to mind.

Maybe close would be good enough for the OP, Woody?

**ruger9** · 08-27-2017, 07:44 AM

That Kessel clip is outstanding. I think we could all learn a lesson from that very short clip- as "fun" as gear is, it should be a means to an end- because the MUSIC should be the true joy, not the gear.

I'm as guilty as anyone of chasing tone with gear. But I'd like to think I'm only doing it to a certain point- until a guitar is the way I want it- then I can stop and just concentrate on the music. I currently have only 1 guitar that feels like that. All good instruments, but only one that feels like an extension of me. And, after a recent pickup swap, I may now have a 2nd... time will tell.

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack. As for the OP, alot of people make PAF-sized CC-type pickups. No way to know how "close" they are, but it seems Lollar would be trustable to come as close as possible. "Cheapest" isn't really part of the equation, I'm afraid. Not in the case of the CC pickup.

If I were looking for a CC-type for an archtop, I'd go either Lollar or Vintage Vibe. And VV because it has swappable magnets, so you could tailor it to your ear and your guitar (now we're in the realm of a pickups sounding like what you want to hear, not necessarily more like a real CC.)

**Fred Archtop** · 08-27-2017, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by ruger9

If I were looking for a CC-type for an archtop, I'd go either Lollar or Vintage Vibe.

Lollar is proposing 2 CC type PU. One has dog-ear P90 format, and it sounds like...a P90. Lollar is also proposing another CC mic' with the original 3 screws mounting system. That one is trusty to the original Gibson prewar CC (I take it from D. Slaman). The VV (Pete Biltoft) CC PU is a first class floater, but it ain't like the real thing.

Following the link below you will find a demo of these 2 PUs (Lollar/P90 format and VV floter) plus 3 other archtops equiped with the original CC PU, the copy from CC PU UK and the CC PU reissued by Gibson in the late '90s (which doesn't come close either to the original).

According to the pope of CC guitars (Daneil Slaman) there are only 2 trustful sources of CC PUs, one is the Lollar 3 screws model, the other one is the copy proposed by CC PU UK.

Cheers.

**ruger9** · 08-27-2017, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Fred Archtop

Lollar is proposing 2 CC type PU. One has dog-ear P90 format, and it sounds like...a P90. Lollar is also proposing another CC mic' with the original 3 screws mounting system. That one is trusty to the original Gibson prewar CC (I take it from D. Slaman). The VV (Pete Biltoft) CC PU is a first class floater, but it ain't like the real thing.

Cheers.

I mention Lollar and VV because they both have HB-mount CC pickups (Gibson mount, not floating), which is one of the options the OP mentioned. And both cheaper than Lollar's 3-bolt version, which the OP also mentioned ("cheapest").

**Sam Sherry** · 08-27-2017, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by archtopeddy

As for your quest for a least expensive way to get a CC pickup guitar in your hands, this may sound crazy, but maybe you could find someone with such a guitar and borrow it for a couple of weeks. Maybe you have an interesting humbucker guitar that you could swap out for a few days. I know you may be thinking "what?!" but I've actually done this before with friends and it's been a good learning experience all around. Obviously, you'd need to find someone you trust and who trusts you, but you never know, it might be worth considering.

That's much too sensible. Please get off the internet immediately.

**rob taft** · 08-27-2017, 03:59 PM

Here are couple of less expensive options.

Aria FA-77 Aria FA series jazz guitar With Charlie Christian Pickup | eBay

D'Angelico EXL-1 Hollowbody - Vintage Sunburst (Lollar Charlie Christian)

**GNAPPI** · 08-27-2017, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by rob taft

Here are couple of less expensive options.

Aria FA-77 Aria FA series jazz guitar With Charlie Christian Pickup | eBay

Hmmm... that Aria is just about driving distance for me... Damn you :-)

**guido5** · 08-27-2017, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by GNAPPI

Hmmm... that Aria is just about driving distance for me... Damn you :-)

The D'Angelico is driving distance from me. Double damn... ;-)

**GNAPPI** · 08-27-2017, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by Sam Sherry

That's much too sensible. Please get off the internet immediately.

You folks must live in a Jazzer's heaven, I don't think there are more than a half dozen CC pups in my whole state let alone among friends :-)

**neatomic** · 08-27-2017, 04:48 PM

just be aware that even the lollar 3 pt cc pickup is not at all true to the original...except in it's mounting format...the large cobalt magnets that give the original cc its unique tone are replaced with acrylic...purely for mounting/cosmetic purposes...not sound!!

What's the cheapest way to experience a CC pickup?-cc-archtop-main_400x562-jpg

What's the cheapest way to experience a CC pickup?-cc-archtop-main_400x562-jpg

what made the original cc pups so cool is that the huge but weak cobalt magnets suspended inside the body, had a huge magnetic field..and interacted with a large length of the strings....not the narrow focus point that smaller pickups (ie. p90's, humbuckers, fenders, etc etc...everything else!!!) with alnico or ferrite rod or bar magnets have

only one making true cc copies is ccpickups out of uk...that's who slaman uses

cheers

**Bernard49** · 08-28-2017, 02:27 AM

I'm a bit surprised none mentions the amp problem as well. I am

waiting for a VA 185g sometime next week !

**oldane** · 08-28-2017, 02:53 AM

One thing about those original CC PUs from the 1930s is that their magnets have often become weaker through the years so even the original ones does't sound the same by now as they did when they were new.

FWIW I have a guitar with an original 1938CC PU (the one with the notch in the blade under the B-string) and I have two guitars with Biltoft HCC PUs. They don't sound quite the same but I actually prefer the HCC. The original CC has more hum and is unbalanced from string to string. Also the three screws holding it to the guitar top tends to come loose so the shims under the screws buzz. Without the shims, the screw heads would dig down in the soft spruce of the top. The HCC is in humbucker mount. and is easy to adjust (and swap if one wishes to do so later).

As for the sound, the HCC is a typical single coil PU but with a more spread and less mid centered sound than a P90. It has good balance between the strings.

Just my humble opinion, of course.

**ruger9** · 08-28-2017, 07:39 AM

Originally Posted by neatomic

just be aware that even the lollar 3 pt cc pickup is not at all true to the original...except in it's mounting format...the large cobalt magnets that give the original cc its unique tone are replaced with acrylic...purely for mounting/cosmetic purposes...not sound!!

What's the cheapest way to experience a CC pickup?-cc-archtop-main_400x562-jpg

what made the original cc pups so cool is that the huge but weak cobalt magnets suspended inside the body, had a huge magnetic field..and interacted with a large length of the strings....not the narrow focus point that smaller pickups (ie. p90's, humbuckers, fenders, etc etc...everything else!!!) with alnico or ferrite rod or bar magnets have

only one making true cc copies is ccpickups out of uk...that's who slaman uses

cheers

I never knew the entire mounting plate was a magnet!

**ruger9** · 08-28-2017, 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by oldane

As for the sound, the HCC is a typical single coil PU but with a more spread and less mid centered sound than a P90. It has good balance between the strings.
.

Sounds like a Dearmond/Dynasonic/T-Armond.... "tonally described", anyway...

What was the evolution? CC > P90 > staple (Alnico V)? Of course only the P90 survived.... I know the staple was a deliberate attempt to copy the Dearmond/Dynasonic....

Cult Coils: Lesser-Known Vintage Pickups | Premier Guitar