Gibson ES-175 vs Aria PE-180 / Princeton Celestion G10 vs Eminence Lil Bud

**jzjazz** · 08-09-2017, 12:08 PM

Hi guys,

Finally done editing my comparison video. Which combination do you like most?

**Greentone** · 08-09-2017, 01:31 PM

Jacob,

Nice sounds, all around. I must say, though, I preferred the Aria Pro II PE-180 and the white Princeton Reverb Amp, to the other combinations.

I sold my ES-175 and kept my (Memphis version of) the Aria Pro II PE-180 because it plays and sounds a bit better, to me. I played the 175 for over 30 years, too, and it was a stunningly great example of that model. It is amazing how surprisingly good the PE-180 is, where the rubber meets the road. The folks at Matsumoku really had the stars in alignment with that one.

Both Princetons sound good, but with either guitar IMO the regular PR edges out the Celestion PR.

**omphalopsychos** · 08-09-2017, 02:24 PM

Aria and Emminence. The two guitars sound similar when playing single notes, but the chords are much fuller sounding on the Aria. Play them through a tweed style amp, and I may have a different opinion.

**Greentone** · 08-09-2017, 02:28 PM

PE-180 through a 5E3 sounds VERY Burrellesque. I do this about once a day.

Now, if I could only play as good as Kenny Burrell...

**2bornot2bop** · 08-09-2017, 04:12 PM

The sound of the '175 was thin and muddy, whilst the '180 was phat and clear, to my ears.

**citizenk74** · 08-09-2017, 05:52 PM

Very cool video! Aria/Eminence FTW, by a nose. I would take either combination any day.

**gggomez** · 08-09-2017, 06:13 PM

Fascinating thanks. The aria sounds fantastic, mellowed. The Gibson closer to the original Burrell sound brighter. The guitar is loud in the mix. I think in a typical band setting the Gibson would cut through better on those settings but am sure the Aria could be adjusted.

The Lil Bud I preferred more rounded bell like that punched through.

Could you share the setting of the guitars and amps?

Thanks again.

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**lawson-stone** · 08-09-2017, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by jzjazz

Hi guys,

Finally done editing my comparison video. Which combination do you like most?

I was distracted by how great you were playing that I had a hard time keeping a critically comparative ear going. Like others, I like the Aria by a hair on both amps. But really, either guitar on either amp, playing the way you do, who's gonna complain?

**Philco** · 08-09-2017, 07:47 PM

Actually, I think you had the Aria louder in the mix and that changes everything. Plus the strings on the Gibson sounded older.

Of course, I cannot be sure of these two observations.

The Aria sounds like a deeper body guitar......is it?

I'll take the Aria and the White Princeton but the Gibson was not that far off.

I love these tests and your playing is great.

The way you set the video up is very cool.

**rlrhett** · 08-10-2017, 01:57 AM

Aria and the white Fender were amazing, whatever the reason! Loved you playing too.

**jzjazz** · 08-10-2017, 02:12 AM

Thanks for all these answers!

My favorite combination is the Gibson and the Celestion. I know we are comparing recorded sounds, but as a player I can't. The gibson is so much more comfortable to play - mostly because of the smaller body, maybe also the scale length. You can see it clearly in the picture - how relaxed my position with the Gibson is, and how bad with the Aria.

The second thing is the live sound - I've already had a couple rehearsals and gigs with the Gibson, in different configurations starting with a voc-gt duo, ending with quartets with vocals and rhythm section. Although I never had feedback problems with the Aria, the Gibson is a real star on stage. It cuts through perfectly and sounds as expected. It's the first guitar/amp combination where I use my home settings for whereever I play and it sounds instantly good.

Now about the amp - the sunburst amp is a bit more mid-focuesed. Less bottom, not as round. But it has a lot more headroom and that was the deciding factor. I can play it on vol 7 and still remain clean (whereas the Lil Bud breaks between 5 and 6). But it's not that I like the sound less - actually on the recording I like the Gibson more with the Sunburst amp, and the Aria with the Eminence :-)

To answer some of your thoughs:

Originally Posted by gggomez

1. The guitar is loud in the mix.

2. Could you share the setting of the guitars and amps?

1. On purpose! I would mix it a big quiter if I made a recording, but for the comparison I though the louder, the better, otherwise the difference might dissapear completely!

2. Unfortunately I'm not sure, since this was recorded a couple weeks ago. I'm sure on both guitars the tone was 10, volume probably at 7-8. Both amps vol. around 5 (pretty loud), treble 1, bas 3-4. I'm guessing but that's my standard setting so pretty likely

Originally Posted by Philco

3. Actually, I think you had the Aria louder in the mix and that changes everything.

4. Plus the strings on the Gibson sounded older.

5. The Aria sounds like a deeper body guitar......is it?

6. The way you set the video up is very cool.

3. I exported the movie a couple times because of that - each time changing this or that guitar by 1dB :-) I'm not sure, but since I expected the Gibson to get more votes, I might have compensated that with making the Aria a bit louder, to make a fair race :-)

4. Not sure - the Aria strings are after 5-6 months of heavy playing (main guitar), the Gibson strings are from Chris (the previous owner), but when the guitar was at my techs, he said that they look fine enough to keep them. But thomastiks don't show their age ;-)

5. I believe the body depth is about the same, but it's a 17" (compared to Gibsons 16"), so that might be it.

6. Thanks. This was much work, my computer isn't the fastest and that's a lot of counting. Not planning to do similar in future - I would rather spend that time on playing :-)))

**GNAPPI** · 08-10-2017, 06:57 AM

To the depths of hell with the sound, that video format is just OUTSTANDING!!!

Now to the sound... It's like my ex-wife used to fuss over which of two dresses to pick. I would put one behind my back and tell her if she never saw the one behind me would she buy the one she was holding? :-) So she would generally buy both!!!

In the case of your demo, either git in either amp would work more than satisfactorily for most. Thanks!!!

PS. I did not vote, and it goes to show it's the Indian not the arrow, AND Aria rocks!!!

**mad dog** · 08-10-2017, 07:36 AM

The aria by a nose, but really, everything sounded excellent in slightly different ways. Wonderful comparison format, very cool playing too!
MD

**lawson-stone** · 08-10-2017, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by jzjazz

Thanks for all these answers!

My favorite combination is the Gibson and the Celestion. I know we are comparing recorded sounds, but as a player I can't. The gibson is so much more comfortable to play - mostly because of the smaller body, maybe also the scale length. You can see it clearly in the picture - how relaxed my position with the Gibson is, and how bad with the Aria.

The second thing is the live sound - I've already had a couple rehearsals and gigs with the Gibson, in different configurations starting with a voc-gt duo, ending with quartets with vocals and rhythm section. Although I never had feedback problems with the Aria, the Gibson is a real star on stage. It cuts through perfectly and sounds as expected. It's the first guitar/amp combination where I use my home settings for whereever I play and it sounds instantly good.

Now about the amp - the sunburst amp is a bit more mid-focuesed. Less bottom, not as round. But it has a lot more headroom and that was the deciding factor. I can play it on vol 7 and still remain clean (whereas the Lil Bud breaks between 5 and 6). But it's not that I like the sound less - actually on the recording I like the Gibson more with the Sunburst amp, and the Aria with the Eminence :-)

To answer some of your thoughs:

1. On purpose! I would mix it a big quiter if I made a recording, but for the comparison I though the louder, the better, otherwise the difference might dissapear completely!

2. Unfortunately I'm not sure, since this was recorded a couple weeks ago. I'm sure on both guitars the tone was 10, volume probably at 7-8. Both amps vol. around 5 (pretty loud), treble 1, bas 3-4. I'm guessing but that's my standard setting so pretty likely

3. I exported the movie a couple times because of that - each time changing this or that guitar by 1dB :-) I'm not sure, but since I expected the Gibson to get more votes, I might have compensated that with making the Aria a bit louder, to make a fair race :-)

4. Not sure - the Aria strings are after 5-6 months of heavy playing (main guitar), the Gibson strings are from Chris (the previous owner), but when the guitar was at my techs, he said that they look fine enough to keep them. But thomastiks don't show their age ;-)

5. I believe the body depth is about the same, but it's a 17" (compared to Gibsons 16"), so that might be it.

6. Thanks. This was much work, my computer isn't the fastest and that's a lot of counting. Not planning to do similar in future - I would rather spend that time on playing :-)))

On the Aria being louder; in my experience with an Aria PE180, a Gibson ES175 and L5ces, the Aria pickups are, to my ear, a little hotter and also a little more mid-range thick. I love how they sound. They have the sweetness of the L5ces, but with a little bit of naughtiness.

**goldenwave77** · 08-10-2017, 11:20 AM

Slight variation. They all sound good, and the playing is good, as well.

175 is maybe a little more focused sounding.

**vinnyv1k** · 08-10-2017, 08:28 PM

Very well done ! Bravo.

**Max405** · 08-10-2017, 09:40 PM

I heard 175 in the sound of the 175. Very defined. Articulate and more interesting.
The Aria sounded nice and was noticeably louder, therefore used more of the amps balls.
As far as the amps, I really couldn't hear much difference. All configurations had the Fender sparkle.
I think any of the configurations would make me a happy man. I expected the comparison to be like apples and oranges. It turned out to be apples and well, apples.
Nicely done JZJazz. Thanks for sharing.

**vinnyv1k** · 08-10-2017, 09:57 PM

Princetons are great amps for jazz. BTW JD yours has the Lil Bud in it.

**gggomez** · 08-10-2017, 11:02 PM

JZJazz since you are so fantastic at this do not hesitate to do one comparing a Princeton with a 10 inch and a 12 inch. Maybe Eminence Jensen or Celestion can sponsor you?

**Flat** · 08-11-2017, 04:31 AM

The Aria and the white Princeton!! That was my favorite, low-down, phat, ballsy, Weslike, thunky sound in the clip. Right up top around 0:19 when you start that line.

I'd give a couple fingers to sound like that. ;-)

But I totally get preferring the Gibson for the feel. In my case, how a guitar feels affects how I play...which over time affects how I sound, so it's nothing to disregard.

My random opinions aside, thanks for a brilliant little video!

**orri** · 08-14-2017, 07:33 AM

I think this kind of proofs that it is how you play the instrument that matters most.

It all sounds really good to me, with some suttle differences, so what seems to matter most is what the player enjoys most to play.

Very nice playing! What song is it?

**jzjazz** · 08-14-2017, 07:38 AM

Thanks! Midnight Blue by Kenny Burrell - a very guitar-tune, sounds great on almost every jazz guitar

**Greentone** · 08-15-2017, 10:57 AM

"Midnight Blue" is a safety tune for me. If it's a slow night--people not listening--I can always get people's attention with Midnight Blue. People who generally don't give a fig about jazz still like that Kenny Burrell tune. It's a layup.

**gggomez** · 08-22-2017, 05:50 PM

Having just gone through a beautiful experience of lowering my pickups to get rid of a tinny sound in my 175 and then lowering more so is now almost down to pick guard I wonder how different the pick up heights are on your fantastic two guitars

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**jzjazz** · 08-22-2017, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by gggomez

Having just gone through a beautiful experience of lowering my pickups to get rid of a tinny sound in my 175 and then lowering more so is now almost down to pick guard I wonder how different the pick up heights are on your fantastic two guitars

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Does the pickup height noticeably change the tone (and not the level)? Didn't know that, have to do some testing