New Eastman Pagelli Electronics Buzz

[Bill Eisele]

Hi there,

I am glad that I found this post because I recently bought an EASTMAN PG2 off reverb too and had the exact same problem described in the OP. I am hoping to find more insight into the grounding/earthing for guitar before thinking of get a different tailpiece that had a metal plate like my D'Aqusito and not a sacconi loop. My tech said he manage to reduce the hum by making an aluminim plate under the tailpiece but he said there is still hum but a lot less and it is design floss for the guitar. I believe the stock pickup is mini humbucker.

Also my guitar tech said he had so much problem trying to get the pickup unstuck as I wanted to upgrade the pickup. He suggested that I might to need to get a complete new pickguard made for the new pickup (Kent Armstrong PAF 12 pole). Ideally I want to keep the original tailpiece and pickguard

I would like to know from the OP to see how is the guitar holding up now and some advises from others.

Hi Jerry405,

I too had a Pagelli and had a tailpiece ground wire installed before having it shipped to me. I also used copper foil with adhesive (available at StewMac) pushed into the tailpiece slots with the ground wire attached to the foil (other approaches using some kind of metal bar that will contact the string ball ends under the tailpiece would also work). So, you can keep the Sacconi setup with the original ebony tailpiece without having to go to a metal tailpiece. That seemed to quiet things down quite a bit, but I had also installed a US made Kent Armstrong 12 pole mini humbucker. So maybe the new humbucker helped as well. What I want to mention is that I was able to obtain another original Eastman Pagelli pickguard from the Eastman dealer from whom I had purchased the guitar. That was Lou Del Rosso at Guitars 'n Jazz in New Jersey, USA (Contact Us | Guitars 'n Jazz). It appeared to be previously used, but was in great condition. My only concern is that these guitars are fairly rare and the supply chain these days isn't great, so availability might be an issue. But worth checking in with Lou or your local Eastman dealer.

And, applying heat from a soldering iron or a heat gun on the pickup tab might help loosen the glue, but your tech should be very careful about protecting the existing pickup and the wood underneath. Covering the pickup with some kind of heat resistant insulation and using the lowest possible temperatures for the soldering iron and heat gun would help.

[Gitpicker]

This has been an issue with the Pagelli model for years. This year Eastman started putting a metal plate under the tailpiece where the strings attach with a wire connecting to the jack so the strings will now have a ground connection.

The good news is if you have an older model it is a fairly strait forward fix for a tech to rig up and is otherwise a great guitar!

Doug

[Gitpicker]

Here's an example of how you can rig one up yourself or have a tech do it. Get some brass pipe and cut it in half, make some slots, rig up a wire to the jack and go at it. That's basically what the new ones have from the factory. - Doug

[Woody Sound]

This has been an issue with the Pagelli model for years. This year Eastman started putting a metal plate under the tailpiece where the strings attach with a wire connecting to the jack so the strings will now have a ground connection.

The good news is if you have an older model it is a fairly strait forward fix for a tech to rig up and is otherwise a great guitar!

Doug

Kind of amazes me that this should have been a design problem with a high quality guitar to begin with. WTH.

[Bill Eisele]

Here's an example of how you can rig one up yourself or have a tech do it. Get some brass pipe and cut it in half, make some slots, rig up a wire to the jack and go at it. That's basically what the new ones have from the factory. - Doug

Perfect! Even better and more robust than my copper foil tape approach!

[Jerry405]

Perfect! Even better and more robust than my copper foil tape approach!

Thanks Bill Eisele & Gitpicker. My Tech came up something like this using aluminium. He said it reduce a lot of it of hum but not completely gone. I will share your advise with him regarding getting the pickup off the pickguard to see if that helps. I guess when he install the other KA 12 pole pickup and hope that is going to make a real different.



So Bill, is yours has no noise or hum at all now? or it still has a little bit but acceptable like the OP?

I have previously contacted Jazz n guitar about their Eastman PG stock but they are not keen to ship internationally so I ended up getting this one from Canada and the shipping was 750CAD (>__<).

Also I have a question regarding the sacconi loop. how do you guys use a guitar strap with the loop in the way of the button. there is not enough room. Do you have to have a bigger button?

[Bill Eisele]

After the new KA 12 pole humbucker was installed along with the ground wire and grounding contact for the string ball ends, there was essentially no ground noise whatsoever. And I should mention that I had installed a KA single coil pickup on the spare ebony pickguard which was also surprisingly quiet. Both pickguards were set up with quick disconnects for the cable so they could be easily switched out. I should also mention that new Schatten volume and tone thumbwheels were installed at the time. So all the electronics and wiring were replaced on each pickguard. But I don’t know if that specifically contributed to the silence.

I should mention that after comparing the two pickups I much preferred the single coil, but it would be a matter of preference. I obtained it from Joe Vinikow at archtop.com.

I had never used a strap on the guitar so I couldn’t comment on how to fit one over the existing strap button that was already crowded with the tailpiece cord. I wonder if you would have success by replacing the existing strap button with one of the locking mechanism buttons like the Schaller type where the catch is on the strap itself and locks onto the top part of the button. But I am not sure if the cord would interfere.

[Bill Eisele]

Here's a couple webpages on how to remove the pickup and mount a new one on the pickguard:

replace-floating-pickup-2009-eastman-pagelli-pg2

Custom Bartolini pickguard mount :: 2009 Eastman Pagelli PG2 [5.1 lbs] — Chubbuck Guitars :: making & repairing Guitars in a old building just north of Boston, Mass.

And, the single coil KA pickup from archtop.com:



ac accessories

[Jerry405]

Thanks Bill. this is amazing and I have forward all these info to my guitar tech. Hopefully he will get it sorted soon so I can play with it.

I am looking in to the Schaller Sexy-lock and will update you guys with the outcome. Really appreciate all your help.

[Jerry405]

After the new KA 12 pole humbucker was installed along with the ground wire and grounding contact for the string ball ends, there was essentially no ground noise whatsoever. And I should mention that I had installed a KA single coil pickup on the spare ebony pickguard which was also surprisingly quiet. Both pickguards were set up with quick disconnects for the cable so they could be easily switched out. I should also mention that new Schatten volume and tone thumbwheels were installed at the time. So all the electronics and wiring were replaced on each pickguard. But I don’t know if that specifically contributed to the silence.

I should mention that after comparing the two pickups I much preferred the single coil, but it would be a matter of preference. I obtained it from Joe Vinikow at archtop.com.

I had never used a strap on the guitar so I couldn’t comment on how to fit one over the existing strap button that was already crowded with the tailpiece cord. I wonder if you would have success by replacing the existing strap button with one of the locking mechanism buttons like the Schaller type where the catch is on the strap itself and locks onto the top part of the button. But I am not sure if the cord would interfere.

Schatten T2 Dual Thumbwheel Volume Control for Artist II Preamps, 500k

is this the Schatten volume and tonewheel?

[Woody Sound]

Still kinda amazes me about the schlock. Can you imagine on a new $3k clarinet, "Oh btw, the octave key doesn't work right, you'll have to fix it yourself."

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

My Tech came up something like this using aluminium. He said it reduce a lot of it of hum but not completely gone.

There may be an explanation in this picture for the incomplete and inconsistent results of this approach. The colored ball ends are coated, and I think it’s unlikely that the coating is conductive. Unless those slots are narrow enough to firmly contact the strings themselves, the only physical contact between the strings and the grounded insert is the ball end. So there will only be conductivity between ground and those strings with bare metal ferrules. In guitars with metal tailpieces, the strings themselves also touch the t’piece as they pass through it.

[Bill Eisele]

Schatten T2 Dual Thumbwheel Volume Control for Artist II Preamps, 500k

is this the Schatten volume and tonewheel?

Yes, it appears to be the same item as the one I bought at StewMac (https://www.stewmac.com/electronics/...wheel-controls). The specifications are the same.

[Bill Eisele]

There may be an explanation in this picture for the incomplete and inconsistent results of this approach. The colored ball ends are coated, and I think it’s unlikely that the coating is conductive. Unless those slots are narrow enough to firmly contact the strings themselves, the only physical contact between the strings and the grounded insert is the ball end. So there will only be conductivity between ground and those strings with bare metal ferrules. In guitars with metal tailpieces, the strings themselves also touch the t’piece as they pass through it.

Yes, so the success of this approach comes down to the brand of strings in terms of whether the ball ends are coated or if the coating sufficiently wears away during the installation and tensioning of the strings. Also keep in mind those manufacturers who silk wrap their wound strings where the string attaches to the ferrule. That can also affect conductivity between the string and tailpiece.

[Jerry405]

Still kinda amazes me about the schlock. Can you imagine on a new $3k clarinet, "Oh btw way, the octave key doesn't work right, you'll have to fix it yourself."

Yes I totally get that and feeling disappointed and fraustrated. I spent 3.2k for my D'Aqusito and it had no problem. I upgraded the pickup to B6 Bennettdo and it sounds amazing.

However, to be fair this a B-stock and the seller didn't know about the hum. He did refund me the 130AUD when my guitar tech first estimsated about how much it would cost but now I think it will be more. I spent 4.2k in total on this Eastman PG2 (shipping was the main cost (820AUD) though, which I had no one to blame but myself) I should have taken the offer of 4.5k for a brand new one from a local retailer.

[Jerry405]

Hi there,

I know this is an old thread now and I just wanted to share my experience with the guitar after the upgrade and electronic work done.

The noise issue has been reduced signifcantly althought it is not completely gone. It also depends on which amp I am using. When I plugged it into my little blue junior, the result is great but when using it on a little practice roland lite (digital), the noise become louder but not as loud as before having no ground.

The main issue I have at the moment with this is, the pickup is too closed to the strings and so as the pickguard for the top E string. I ended up hitting them both all the time when playing. After doing a bit of research, I am thinking to get the Krivo Micro Stealth PAF pickup which is only half the thickness (6.3mm) instead of the KA 12 pole pickup.

Micro-Stealth PAF-Style Pickup for Archtop Jazz Guitar

I don't want to have to play closer to the bridge as the sweet warm tone is where the pickup is. I have also seen a PG2 that has the pickguard fined down a bit of the edge but not sure if I want to go down that path. I wonder if any PG2 owners have similar issues?

[Bill Eisele]

Hi there,

I know this is an old thread now and I just wanted to share my experience with the guitar after the upgrade and electronic work done.

The noise issue has been reduced signifcantly althought it is not completely gone. It also depends on which amp I am using. When I plugged it into my little blue junior, the result is great but when using it on a little practice roland lite (digital), the noise become louder but not as loud as before having no ground.

The main issue I have at the moment with this is, I the pick up is too closed to the strings as well as the pickguard for the top E string. After doing a bit of research, I am thinking to get the Krivo Micro Stealth PAF pickup which is only half the thickness (6.3mm) of the KA 12 pole pickup.

Micro-Stealth PAF-Style Pickup for Archtop Jazz Guitar

I don't want to have to play closer to the bridge as the sweet warm tone is where the pickup is. I have also seen a PG2 that has the pickguard fined down a bit of the edge but not sure if I want to go down that path. I wonder if any PG2 owners have similar issues?

I have to say that I don't recall this being a problem for me when I owned the guitar, but I know this question comes up for other guitarists with the pickup being hit by the pick and making clicking sounds. You might do a search on the forum for those posts to see how they may or may not have resolved this issue. It happens to me on my Guild X700 and I have to adjust my right hand technique to minimize it. Not easy! Not sure what to say about the E string being so close to the pickguard edge. I'm assuming that the strings are equally spread out over the fingerboard and not shifted towards the treble side.

[Oscar67]

Attachment 44670

Off topic, but that’s a beauty!

[Jerry405]

I have to say that I don't recall this being a problem for me when I owned the guitar, but I know this question comes up for other guitarists with the pickup being hit by the pick and making clicking sounds. You might do a search on the forum for those posts to see how they may or may not have resolved this issue. It happens to me on my Guild X700 and I have to adjust my right hand technique to minimize it. Not easy! Not sure what to say about the E string being so close to the pickguard edge. I'm assuming that the strings are equally spread out over the fingerboard and not shifted towards the treble side.

The pickup and pickguard are about 5mm from the strings. I have a D'Aqusito Jazz Line, which has 8mm in distance between the strings and pickup and pickguard, and I have no issues playing with it so I have taken it to the another guitar tech who suggested that we can lower the pickup and pickguard for 2mm given the thickness of the current pickup. I know if I can 3mm lower it will defintelly be problem just like my DAqusito. Let's hope that 2mm can do the job and this is going to cost another AUD250 adding up to the total cost of nearly AUD4.5k (not happy and self doubting my decision). I will keep you guys updated when I get the guitar back next week.

I guess for those, who are intersted in this particular model, please make sure you check all of these issues before committing to buying one. With that price point (maybe with a bit extra), I could have got myself a Sadowsky Jim Hall (2nd hand).