-
I had stainless frets installed on my 1963 ES-175 about six months ago. The frets that were on it were from an early 80's refret and were the low, wide frets commonly used in that day. They had been leveled at some point and were at an almost fretless wonder stage. I have come to like the playability of jumbo frets and having a powerful right hand, I am hard on frets. I wanted to try stainless. Also living by the ocean, nickel needs regular polishing.
After six months of use, I have the following observations:
The good:
No fret wear whatsoever
They never need polishing
The bad:
Nickel strings wear faster (my habit of using $27 TI strings will quickly offset the cost of future refrets)
There is a slight ping on the open strings (this does not come through the amplifier, but it is there)
My conclusion:
I wanted to try stainless as I had played a few guitars with stainless frets and really liked the slick feel. I won't do it again. I like pure nickel strings and do not like changing strings. I am willing to put up with the fret polishing and the fret wear in exchange for longer string life and an elimination of the ping.
If I was a rocker using cheap strings that I was changing every month, always playing loud through an amp and bending strings like crazy, stainless would be a must. But I am a jazzman who loves my $27 Austrian flatwound strings, who often plays acoustically. Back to nickel I go.
-
07-12-2017 01:10 PM
-
Thanks for sharing Stringswinger. Have you got any clues what the physical explanation for the slight ping on open strings could be?
-
No idea. Something about the steel against steel creates the sound. I wonder if I used stainless strings if the ping would be on all six?
Originally Posted by JazzNote
-
We built a lot of guitars with stainless frets and more with nickel silver. We used the same size frets on almost all of them: 6100's. I was never able to hear the "ping" that a lot of people talk about. I wonder if it's because they were used to frets that were so much smaller both from original size, wear and levelling? Jumbo frets put a lot of metal very near the string surface and I'm assuming that the cause of the "ping" is the string vibrating slightly against the top of the frets, especially if you play hard. It's just a guess, but I suspect you'd get the same ping with new nickel silver frets that were the same size.
The same may well be true about the string wear. You make a lot more contact with a jumbo fret than you do with old word and levelled nickel silvers.Last edited by Jim Soloway; 07-12-2017 at 02:20 PM.
-
Interesting. I've owned a couple guitars with stainless frets (Buscarino uses them as standard most of the time) and I had my Andersen laminate Vanguard re-fretted with Stainless because I wanted to make sure Steve Andersen did the work before he retired. I don't notice any difference at all. I've used them with flats and rounds - no issues. No excessive brightness or anything like that. And my last set of TI's were on there for at least two years.
-
Jim, I have a lot of guitars with Jumbo frets. No ping, no excessive string wear. I do play hard. If I did not have as many guitars as I do, I would be getting fret replacement jobs every year or two. I do like the slippery feel of stainless, but overall, nickel will be my way forward. YMMV Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
-
I actually prefer the feel of nickel silver for reasons that I've never been able to articulate. We used nickel silver for many years, switched to stainless and then switched back at lest in part because I thought we did a much better job with nickel silver. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
-
good stuff
just like stainless steel strings will tear through nickel silver frets!!..stainless is rough on nickel...
if you are on the vintage all nickel path... strings, frets, pickup mags and speakers...you are closer to what a 1963 175 would have sounded like
get a jewelers/rouge cloth for easy tarnish maintenance of the nickel silver frets
only thing i don't quite get is why you'd hear ping on the open strings?? theoretically no contact with frets..stainless or nickel...was the nut or bridge saddle changed in any way??
live and learn..good report
cheers
-
I am very happy with Jescar EVO wire on my guitars.
-
It does have a new bone nut. Originally Posted by neatomic
good stuff
just like stainless steel strings will tear through nickel silver frets!!..stainless is rough on nickel...
if you are on the vintage all nickel path... strings, frets, pickup mags and speakers...you are closer to what a 1963 175 would have sounded like
get a jewelers/rouge cloth for easy tarnish maintenance of the nickel silver frets
only thing i don't quite get is why you'd hear ping on the open strings?? theoretically no contact with frets..stainless or nickel...was the nut or bridge saddle changed in any way??
live and learn..good report
cheers
-
hah..i figured something had to be going on!...try scraping some pencil graphite into the nut slots..it'll lube 'em and probably/hopefully get rid of the ping! Originally Posted by Stringswinger
cheers
-
Thanks Marco for the heads up. I guess nickel against nickel "is" the winning combo for our type of playing.
If you only have 1 axe SS makes sense but if you have multiple axes nickel most likely will last you the rest of your life.
Thanks for being our R&D man.
-
Great discussion! thanks pros
-
Thanks for the comments. I also prefer plain old nickel silver.
-
That's what I was wondering. Must be a setup issue. There's no way you have to just accept a ping because the frets are stainless... Originally Posted by neatomic
-
While I really like Stainless and the ultra hard Jescar EVO fret material, I can absolutely respect where you are coming from Marco.
Every luthier that I took my GJS to asked me "why the hell do you want stainless frets???". When I chose the EVO frets, most told me there was almost no difference between stainless and EVO.
I totally agree with that excessively hard fret material is totally not necessary. Now, I don't play hard (duh..). So I am not wearing out my TI Jazz swings like you are. And I did like the smoothness and the "snap" of the stainless frets that I had on my GB10.
-
JD, I suspect that if one has a light touch, nickel strings might actually last LONGER with stainless or EVO as there is less friction against the string with the slippery fret material. Originally Posted by Max405
I dig in, especially on rhythm. For me nickel is probably a better choice.
The Stainless might still be somewhat economical for me. I usually get about a year out of a set of TI's with an e and b change at around the six month mark. Total cost: $30 per year. With the Stainless, I will have to change the entire set at the six month mark. Total cost $54 per year ($24 extra). But when you consider that I won't have to do a refret every 5-6 years at $300 or so, I do come out ahead with the stainless (just more string changing is involved). The ping is a small bother (I will try lubing the nut and the saddle and see if that helps).
What I really need is for an American company to make pure nickel flatwounds with a round core (and lighter gauges on the wound strings than usual) so I can pay $15 instead of $27 for my string sets!
-
Marco, Yeah when you do the math it works. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
Can you tell us aside from the ping, do you like the sound of the 175 with the SS frets? Did they put the skinny frets on the 175 in 1963? I know they did in 1953.
I was just wondering if the Stainless frets took any of the magic away. Buzz Levine told me he did a Stainless fret job for a customer on a vintage D'Angelico and the customer brought the guitar back after a couple of days and had Buzz redo the frets in nickel. He said he client HATED the sound of the SS frets on the D'Angelico.
Joe D
-
This guitar had 70's T-Top PUPs and wide low 70's frets when I got it. It now has jumbo frets and the correct Pre T-Top PUPs. It is a much warmer and easier to play guitar now. The slight ping bothers me a little, but does not come through the amp, and being an electric guitar, she only gets played through an amp in any case. Originally Posted by Max405
So all in all, the guitar is way better after all the work. If I had it to do over again, I would do the nickel frets. But the SS frets are fine and may be more economical in the long run.
-
Sometimes those pings are from the strings before the nut or behind the bridge, or from other sources. I would be somewhat skeptical about the frets causing pings, but of course I can't see or hear the guitar, so I won't say anything for sure. But I would look for other sources, which could perhaps be muffled or otherwise killed.
-
BTW, I meant "plain" strings, not open strings on the ping. No ping at all on the wound strings. I will do a string change and report back.
-
I have ss on both my Strat and Tele. I like them in all respects except that the fret ends tend to feel a little bit rough. I tried a file touch up, but I think that I need a diamond abrasive file because of the hardness of the ss.
-
You can get pings from harmonics on other strings, when playing certain notes, and I get them on some guitars, sometimes, but that can be heard through the amp because a string is vibrating. If the ping can't be heard through the amp, I would take a hard look at the possibility of it coming from the strings behind the bridge, or perhaps behind the nut. You can muffle those easily enough with various materials. As with any archtop, it could also be something else on the guitar vibrating. As I said before, it's impossible to diagnose from afar, but the new frets could have changed the resonances slightly, somehow, thus causing something to ring that wasn't quite ringing before.
-
AHHH, that's different! Originally Posted by Stringswinger
BTW, I meant "plain" strings, not open strings on the ping. No ping at all on the wound strings. I will do a string change and report back.
-
I think the "ping" sound is real. To my ear it's more of a whining sound you hear from the unwound strings as they rattle against the hard stainless steel. I don't hear that with Evo. Maybe it's because the material is a bit softer or because the alloy characteristics or chemistry is different. Evo is a much more brittle material than stainless - it's not ductile at all and snaps like a twig.
Stainless has a nice, slick feel if you're bending strings and using vibrato with lead guitar type playing. But for most jazz playing I don't sense a huge advantage with stainless if Evo is also an option. Stainless is cheaper by half. But Evo Gold wears very hard, it "sounds" like nickel , and it's much easier to install and level. Whatever you choose, if you play a lot you might want to consider a fret material other than 18% nickel because with nickel you may see noticeable fret wear within a few months.
Reply With Quote
“Shearing style”
Today, 05:26 PM in Comping, Chords & Chord Progressions