Stainless frets six months later

[Stringswinger]

I think the "ping" sound is real. To my ear it's more of a whining sound you hear from the unwound strings as they rattle against the hard stainless steel. I don't hear that with Evo. Maybe it's because the material is a bit softer or because the alloy characteristics or chemistry is different. Evo is a much more brittle material than stainless - it's not ductile at all and snaps like a twig.

Stainless has a nice, slick feel if you're bending strings and using vibrato with lead guitar type playing. But for most jazz playing I don't sense a huge advantage with stainless if Evo is also an option. Stainless is cheaper by half. But Evo Gold wears very hard, it "sounds" like nickel , and it's much easier to install and level. Whatever you choose, if you play a lot you might want to consider a fret material other than 18% nickel because with nickel you may see noticeable fret wear within a few months.

Before going with Stainless, I did a lot of web research and found a lot of debate about ping and brightness. The two guitars that I had played with Stainless were both electric and amplified so I heard no ping, the tone was good and the playability was top notch.

I cannot say for sure if Stainless is brighter as I also changed PUPS. But the ping is real. I am going to try some non TI strings with a string change that I will try next week. I want to see if the lack of a brass coating makes a difference to my ears.

As this guitar is an electric guitar, the Stainless frets will be fine. If it was an acoustic guitar, I would seriously consider having the Stainless frets removed.

As to EVO, I wish they had a silver version. IMO, gold frets look wrong. I could probably get used to them on a guitar with gold hardware, but on a nickel/chrome hardware guitar, gold frets would be a visual bother.

[ThatRhythmMan]

As to EVO, I wish they had a silver version. IMO, gold frets look wrong. I could probably get used to them on a guitar with gold hardware, but on a nickel/chrome hardware guitar, gold frets would be a visual bother.

I wish they had a silver option also. Unfortunately, it would have to be a totally different alloy. For those with a nickel allergy it an option that most luthiers will work with. It has that going for it.

[Robertkoa]

I had stainless frets installed on my 1963 ES-175 about six months ago. The frets that were on it were from an early 80's refret and were the low, wide frets commonly used in that day. They had been leveled at some point and were at an almost fretless wonder stage. I have come to like the playability of jumbo frets and having a powerful right hand, I am hard on frets. I wanted to try stainless. Also living by the ocean, nickel needs regular polishing.

After six months of use, I have the following observations:

The good:

No fret wear whatsoever

They never need polishing

The bad:

Nickel strings wear faster (my habit of using $27 TI strings will quickly offset the cost of future refrets)

There is a slight ping on the open strings (this does not come through the amplifier, but it is there)

My conclusion:

I wanted to try stainless as I had played a few guitars with stainless frets and really liked the slick feel. I won't do it again. I like pure nickel strings and do not like changing strings. I am willing to put up with the fret polishing and the fret wear in exchange for longer string life and an elimination of the ping.

If I was a rocker using cheap strings that I was changing every month, always playing loud through an amp and bending strings like crazy, stainless would be a must. But I am a jazzman who loves my $27 Austrian flatwound strings, who often plays acoustically. Back to nickel I go.

Yes the " Ping" is definitely there - bass Luthiers call it
'Fret Slap'.

HOWEVER - if you are noticing premature string wear
getting the frets micro polished really smooth may help..not rocket science.

In the Future EVO Gold is softer than Stainless but longer lasting than Nickel by far.
Less Problems for sensitive ears.

I will try EVO soon.

In THIS Video he DEMONSTRATES by hammering lightly with finger as in fretting the Fret Slap on Stainless vs Not on EVO Gold.

There are other minor differences but through a Low Fi Tube Amp most males over 40 won't hear them.

Fret Slap -your Grandma will hear it.

[Robertkoa]

That's what I was wondering. Must be a setup issue. There's no way you have to just accept a ping because the frets are stainless...

No Ping on open Strings.Depending on Technique there IS on fretted notes...mostly or completely not going through the Amp.

Just like with Metal Slides etc. Very minor difference in Tones...most don't hear that.

Some legato Players like stainless better..some not.

One advantage of Larger than Vintage fretwire is:[Regardless Of Alloy ];

Fretted Notes sound MORE like the Open Strings in volume due to more tone transfer and because bigger frets are not muting the strings similar to the way the NUT is not...

So on Refrets - Techs have to deal with Customers hearing ' more' from fretted Notes just from increased mass and even seating Frets with Cyanoacrylate which may not have been done before...so there may be more Bass More Treble louder etc even with Nickel...

We have better Fret Material (even the Nickel ) and better Techs than Leo Fender had.



On fretless Guitars the difference between Nut is even larger -.

I am not any kind of Luthier or Tech but I love Resonant Guitars...and how to enable it or get it lol.

[furtom]

Very interesting. So your are saying the ping is just part of it? I had no idea.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[Robertkoa]

Very interesting. So your are saying the ping is just part of it? I had no idea.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

It CAN be depends on Guitar and Player and Rig-

Guitar Amplifiers tend to be Low Fi counting the Speaker so there's a steep roll off above 5500 Hertz or so...

HOWEVER -Guys like me who are recording oriented might use a Tube Preamp and Cab IRs so things might show up more..

Most say it's inaudible or minimal - others say different..

I played a super warm and fat resonant Anderson Strat Type that had Stainless and I couldn't hear it at all- it's typical Any Sunday Rule Guitar Exception...
they did not ping unplugged but I could not get endless sustain from finger vibrato cause there was not much friction.

With Guitars and Guitar Technique there's an exception to almost anything..the Any Given Sunday Rule..

I'm practical- so IF I can convince Kiesel Guitars to make me a 22 Fret Semihollow [ they have a 2.6 Inch thick Semi Hollow coming out soon ONLY available as 24 Fret - ¿¿¿ ?]-

I would not risk Stainless but I would risk EVO when having something made for more fatness/ warmth.

Fairly small difference - many wouldn't notice.

Refretting an ES 175 with Stainless..ESPECIALLY larger size fretwire might be risky though..

[Stringswinger]

I did my first string change with the new frets today (six months in)

As an experiment, I wanted to try a set of roundwounds just to see how I like them on this guitar. I used a set of D'Addario 12's but used a 13 and 17 for the E and B (kind of mimicking TI's use of heavy plains with lighter wounds).

Some good news:

The old strings were not as trashed as I thought, only the wound G was trashed, so I could continue to use my beloved TI flats and simply change the top 3 strings at the six month mark (I already was changing the E and B at the six month interval).

The ping was far less noticeable with uncoated plain strings, as opposed to TI's brass coated plain strings. (I had noticed that the ping did seem to decrease over time, I guess that was because the brass wore off. If I continue to use TI's, I may have to remove the brass coating)

As far as the roundwounds go (at $5 a set, I could save some money or change them pretty often), I will have to try them on a few gigs and see how my fingers like them on a 3-4 hour gig. Soundwise, they are pretty resonant. The guitar is still pretty warm, even with the rounds.

All said, I will still go back to nickel silver frets on my next refret.

[Max405]

Isn't that something about the brass coatings in the TI's. See, your boys Joe and Vinny are not nuts after all. (Well maybe Vinny is a little bit..)
im glad it worked out for you Marco.
Joe D

I did my first string change with the new frets today (six months in)

As an experiment, I wanted to try a set of roundwounds just to see how I like them on this guitar. I used a set of D'Addario 12's but used a 13 and 17 for the E and B (kind of mimicking TI's use of heavy plains with lighter wounds).

Some good news:

The old strings were not as trashed as I thought, only the wound G was trashed, so I could continue to use my beloved TI flats and simply change the top 3 strings at the six month mark (I already was changing the E and B at the six month interval).

The ping was far less noticeable with uncoated plain strings, as opposed to TI's brass coated plain strings. (I had noticed that the ping did seem to decrease over time, I guess that was because the brass wore off. If I continue to use TI's, I may have to remove the brass coating)

As far as the roundwounds go (at $5 a set, I could save some money or change them pretty often), I will have to try them on a few gigs and see how my fingers like them on a 3-4 hour gig. Soundwise, they are pretty resonant. The guitar is still pretty warm, even with the rounds.

All said, I will still go back to nickel silver frets on my next refret.

[neatomic]

ok just remember guys

all unwound plain (e-b) strings are made of steel wire..they then all have either a very thin tin coating (common) or brass coating applied...thomastik is rare company offers both..but really the only company (that i can think of) that does!..all usa made plain strings strings (made for electric) are coated with tin!!

there are no unplated steel strings..tho within time any plating is removed whilst playing!

my general opinion is..if you are playing a guitar often..in heavy rotation..you should be putting on new strings and checking your intonation fairly often...i know the price of thomastiks is ridiculous!! but that doesnt take away from the fact that strings have a short window of maximum sound quality....

do thomastik flats sound better longer..yes!!..but new(er) thomastik flats sound better than older..it's a fine line..but don't make it depend on $$$$


my 2¢..haha


cheers

[Stringswinger]

ok just remember guys

all unwound plain (e-b) strings are made of steel wire..they then all have either a very thin tin coating (common) or brass coating applied...thomastik is rare company offers both..but really the only company (that i can think of) that does!..all usa made plain strings strings (made for electric) are coated with tin!!

there are no unplated steel strings..tho within time any plating is removed whilst playing!

my general opinion is..if you are playing a guitar often..in heavy rotation..you should be putting on new strings and checking your intonation fairly often...i know the price of thomastiks is ridiculous!! but that doesnt take away from the fact that strings have a short window of maximum sound quality....

do thomastik flats sound better longer..yes!!..but new(er) thomastik flats sound better than older..it's a fine line..but don't make it depend on $$$$


my 2¢..haha


cheers

Neatomic, I did not know that. It does seem that the brass makes more ping than the tin with the SS frets. OTOH, I think the brass coating must last a bit longer as my experience is that the brass coated plains seem to be more rust resistant to my fingers.

Maybe I need to follow Joe and Vinny and go with coated plains? (Elixers)

[Jim Soloway]

ok just remember guys

all unwound plain (e-b) strings are made of steel wire..they then all have either a very thin tin coating (common) or brass coating applied...thomastik is rare company offers both..but really the only company (that i can think of) that does!..all usa made plain strings strings (made for electric) are coated with tin!!

there are no unplated steel strings..tho within time any plating is removed whilst playing!

my general opinion is..if you are playing a guitar often..in heavy rotation..you should be putting on new strings and checking your intonation fairly often...i know the price of thomastiks is ridiculous!! but that doesnt take away from the fact that strings have a short window of maximum sound quality....

do thomastik flats sound better longer..yes!!..but new(er) thomastik flats sound better than older..it's a fine line..but don't make it depend on $$$$


my 2¢..haha


cheers

I know I'm a bit contrarian (or possibly just ass-backwards) but I actually prefer TI Swing Series strings after they've been played for quite a while. I usually won't record with them until I've played off all of the sizzle. I've been using Chromes for the last couple months and I'm amazed at how much better they sound when they're new but with TI's I want them to be half-dead .

[neatomic]

ok..you have to remember that the plain unwound hi E & B string is 99% steel core solid string..only the very minute outer plating on top is either tin...or in rarer instance (thoms) brass

honestly, i think you'd need bats ears to hear any difference!!!..you are talking about the super thin outer coating not the actual string!!!

having said that ( for some reason) i prefer the tins too!..dont like the brass coated either...tho i assume its just some kind of visual cue...cant imagine i could hear the difference between a microscopic layer of brass vs tin..but if i can!!??..thats why i prefer tin....and why i applaud thomastik for offering both!!


elixirs..well..humph..elixirs are packaged tin coated plain string just coated after the fact with a plastic gore-tex coating..it's there to slow down corrioson..not for sound!!..tho i never would want a string i use coated in synthetic plastic..would jimmy D have???..no way!!!!!

might they lessen any ping noise..well surely..they have a plastic coating!! but coats your tone as well!


it's just a way for strings to sound ok longer...not better... to begin with!!!

as per ping...id think any difference you hear between 2 different plated high E&B strings would be remedied within a few hours of solid playing..

cheers

ps- in no way ever trying to demean any guitar string co!!..good on them all (and those that benefit from them!)..but for those specific few here who are really looking for classic old tone...as opposed to longevity..mark my words

[neatomic]

I know I'm a bit contrarian (or possibly just ass-backwards) but I actually prefer TI Swing Series strings after they've been played for quite a while. .

no contraire, not at all

but why i was careful to write

do thomastik flats sound better longer..yes!!..but new(er) thomastik flats sound better than older..it's a fine line..but don't make it depend on $$$$


you choose you're own time to restring..but thoms being so $$$..tend to make guys put it off a bit longer...that's all



cheers

[Stringswinger]

I know I'm a bit contrarian (or possibly just ass-backwards) but I actually prefer TI Swing Series strings after they've been played for quite a while. I usually won't record with them until I've played off all of the sizzle. I've been using Chromes for the last couple months and I'm amazed at how much better they sound when they're new but with TI's I want them to be half-dead .

Jim, I am with you. I like TI flats much better after they have calmed down.

[Stringswinger]

Isn't that something about the brass coatings in the TI's. See, your boys Joe and Vinny are not nuts after all. (Well maybe Vinny is a little bit..)
im glad it worked out for you Marco.
Joe D

JD, you sold me two amazing guitars that I cherish. You are nuts for doing so, but I love you anyway bro!

[sgosnell]

I'm pretty sure the Elixir strings have the plastic coating only on the wound strings. The site says the plain strings have "anti-rust plating" which is the standard way to do plain steel strings. I used to use Elixirs at times, and I never found any coating at all on the plain strings, just the standard tin plating.

[vinnyv1k]

Isn't that something about the brass coatings in the TI's. See, your boys Joe and Vinny are not nuts after all. (Well maybe Vinny is a little bit..)
im glad it worked out for you Marco.
Joe D

Thanks bro....I will take a little bit. My wife says I am full blown off the hook. :-)

[neatomic]

for info sake...just in case there's any lingering doubts as to solid brass plain strings... or brass vs tin plated plain string questions-

here's the chart from thomastik..as you can see it's tin plated vs brass plated..on steel core...and they have otherwise equal specs



cheers

[Max405]

Ahhhh... what do they know..

[lammie200]

for info sake...just in case there's any lingering doubts as to solid brass plain strings... or brass vs tin plated plain string questions...

Can you even make a string out of solid brass? Seems like it would be too soft.

[vernon]

For what it's worth, I've heard no "ping" or increased brightness in the two months I've been playing my SS refretted ES-175.

[Thumpalumpacus]

my general opinion is..if you are playing a guitar often..in heavy rotation..you should be putting on new strings and checking your intonation fairly often...i know the price of thomastiks is ridiculous!! but that doesnt take away from the fact that strings have a short window of maximum sound quality....

It still trips me out to read around here about guys playing a single set for a year or so.

I don't play flatwounds, but I doubt I'd let them go that long anyway, because intonation is a focal point for me. I change the strings once the intonation starts flattening, which is usually about 20-25 hours on the electric here, and about 30-35 on the flattop.

Granted I've never used flatwounds, so maybe there's something I'm missing. But the E1 and B, being unwound, are going to go sour quicker anyway -- no matter the winding on the bass strings. And when that happens, I just change the set.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I'm pretty sure the Elixir strings have the plastic coating only on the wound strings. The site says the plain strings have "anti-rust plating" which is the standard way to do plain steel strings. I used to use Elixirs at times, and I never found any coating at all on the plain strings, just the standard tin plating.

Gosh, I hate those. I tried a set on my flattop a couple of years ago -- got the set as an Xmas present -- and boy, did they sound anemic. Took the cojones right off the guitar.

[neatomic]

Ahhhh... what do they know..

ha!! joe D and my fellows here...no disrespect ever meant to you guys, whose opinions & talents i value so highly...just want to back up whatever "facts?" i have stated previously!!!...

always want to get it right...even if i'm wrong!..(sounds like an al green song!)hah

cheers

[Robertkoa]

For what it's worth, I've heard no "ping" or increased brightness in the two months I've been playing my SS refretted ES-175.

That's great to hear !

Who did the refret for you ( if OK to ask )
And did you use Jescar .047 X .104 ?

Even unplugged it's as warm and Phatt as ever ?

Definitely a win - because a 175 would definitely show it -and apparently sometimes there are no artifacts soundwise.