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So a couple of weeks ago I decided to take advantage of the GC 3 years no interest financing and upgrade my PA system to the new Fishman "fish stick". I've been using a Bose L1 Compact for a number of years and while it is a very "pretty" sounding system, I find that it can be a little under-powered and I have trouble with mics feeding back when the system is cranked. I also felt the Bose lacked in the mids and you need to be physically some distance from the system for it to sound really good, not always possible on small stages.
The Fishman has a much stronger mid-range than the Bose and pretty good bottom end, even without the sub. It lacks the top end sheen of the L1 even with the tweeter control all the way up. On the other hand, the overall design is so practical I went ahead and sold the Bose. Currently I have the SA330, the expander module (mixer), stand and I got the roller bag for free on the Fishman rebate deal. That's a really nice system that can handle my trio (guitar/vocals, violin/vocals, upright bass) with power and channels to spare. Nice. I might even get the sub to give the bass a little more bottom end.
One thing I really like about an integrated system like this is that the audience hears the whole mix coming through one system. I think this will give us a more polished, coherent sound than having separate guitar and bass amps with just the vocal mics and fiddle coming through the PA, which is how we were playing with the Bose. However, in order to achieve this goal I need to be able to plug my Gibson L4 direct so I can leave my amp home.
So I tried just plugging straight in, but I use a Kent Armstrong floating humbucker and it sounds kind of blah by itself, as you would expect. I have a Tech 21 Para Driver and that was a definite improvement. I could bring the drive up a bit to get a little grit into the signal and I messed around with the EQ quite a bit, but I never found a sound I really loved. And the razor sharp attack transient was definitely bothering me so now I'm on a quest for a preamp (of course I am).
So Friday I picked up a used Pod HD bean. I know Jim Soloway used one of these for years and got great tones with his. I spent a couple of hours trying different amps with no effects (just a touch of reverb). I was most interested in hearing the Gibson EH-185 since I'm looking for a dark, thick 1930s style jazz tone. It's a good sounding model but I actually liked the Ampeg Flip top model best through its 15" speaker model.
I got the POD cheap locally so I'm not wedded to it (plus I just got a nice bonus at work). There are obviously other newer products I could look into from the Boss GT-001 to the Kemper. I don't need a floor unit as I'm not going to be working effects like a rock guy so I'd be cool with a rack pre (I had an 11 rack years ago that I really liked). Portability and sound quality are key. What do you guys like for this sort of thing?
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I have used the Fractal systems for years (first Axe FX II and now AX8) and I've been really happy with the results. I've used them for mainly jazz, but also rock and metal.
I use tube amps at home, but using the Fractal straight into a mixer makes our set up and sound check easy. I can hear in the monitor exactly what everyone else hears. It also makes loading in and out much easier.
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I think it also tends to improve a band's sound. We guitar players are a stubborn lot when it comes to tube amps. Isn't it interesting that when we compromise on our tone it improves the band's overall sound? (although obviously if you're using a Fractal that's not exactly a compromise, I'm thinking more about the Line 6 and Roland modeling tools).
I'm thinking about the AX8 and of course the Kemper, but those are going to be a tough sell to the wife. Currently I'm playing through a Quilter MicroPro Mach 2 8" which is a nice little amp, handy and versatile and has a decent sound but nothing inspiring. It has been a useful tool and I won't part with it because it's my only guitar amp and I'll still use it at times. I had previously been thinking about getting a nice tube amp but the Fishman has really changed my thinking.
The only thing that bothers me is how many high gain amps are in the model list with so few clean options. I studied the Fractal model list today. I'd like to see more quirky tube amp models -- Supros, Gibsons, Ampeg, early octal preamp Fenders. I wonder if Fractal or Kemper would be a better choice for that type of amp or if there's something else out there? Probably chasing a unicorn, but that's why I picked up the Pod, I wanted to check out the Gibson EH-185 model.
Anyway thanks for responding, it's good to know someone is using the AX8 for jazz.
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Oddly enough, for my jazz gigs I don't use one of the model that you would guess. I use the Budda Twinmaster tweaked to my own settings. I added a volume pedal model (the Fractal effects are fantastic by the way) so that I can plug in an expression pedal and that's it.
The Budda model sits in the mix perfectly. Strangely, it's not even directly modeled after a real Twinmaster. It's a sim that Cliff just programmed to mimic the amp.
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Interesting, I'd like to hear that. Who's Cliff BTW?
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Sorry about that. Cliff is Cliff Chase, the engineer/founder behind Fractal Audio. He also used to be a very regular contributor to the Fractal Audio forums. He was very open and accessible until he started getting some weird threats.
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I've been using modelling for the past few years, and I've never been happier.
I have two setups, both a little unconventional I guess. First is an old Polytone preamp pedal followed by an Atomic Amplifire (I just use fx and impulse responses, no modelling). Second is a Barber Barb Eq followed by a Logidy Epsi, a Zoom MS100BT and a stereo DI. The Barber will be replaced with a Mambo Fender preamp, soon.
I also have two piezo boards (one is RMC preamp and TC Play Acoustic, the other is RMC preamp, TC Body Rez, Zoom MS70CDR and stereo DI). I use them with my acoustic and classical, but I plan to add piezo to my archtops soon and blend the sound of the humbucker with the piezo.
My monitors are two Mambo PA columns, they sound amazing and are "combo" format.
I would love to try a Helix or an AX8 or a Kemper, but they're too big and expensive. I might add a Zoom G3N soon, to have more fx and a looper.
Last edited by jorgemg1984; 05-16-2017 at 10:36 AM.
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Nice setup, I've heard good things about the Amplifire, although the available amp models are a little weak in the clean dept (probably why you don't use them).
What Polytone preamp pedal are you using?
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I love the fx and the IR loading, but can't bond with the modelling. That's OK, I like my preamp pedals! 
This is the Polytone pedal
Polytone in a Pedal
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super curious to hear your thoughts on vocals, acoustic flat tops and floating pup archtops thorugh the fishstick, if you have any.
sort of set on getting a schertler but, you know...
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I've become a true believer in Fishman Equip., there was a time when the Fish-Stick was my Solo rig, the only draw back was the bag; the casters caused the dern thing to flip when I pulling it into the room/venue.
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Sorry to hear about the casters, I just got the roller bag but haven't had a chance to use it yet. Thanks for the heads up.
feet, I like the sound of my voice through the Fishman, though it's very different from the Bose, and I like it for archtop as long as I have a preamp with it. The L4 is a little dull sounding plugged straight in. I actually don't own a flat top acoustic so I can't tell you about that but I think it's sort of optimized for acoustic guitars so I would expect it to sound good.
I don't know anything about Schertler but I will say the ergonomics and versatility of the SA330 are superb. My only real gripe with it is the reverb tail which seems to have 4 settings: Long, Too Long, Gymnasium and OMG Stop that thing! :-D
The first setting is usable with voice as long as I keep the mix low, but I hate the way it sounds with my guitar where I really want just some subtle ambiance. That's part of the reason I've gone looking for a multi-fx device to shape the tone of my L4. So far the Pod is working so I may stick with that for a while. I need to pay off some things before I go plunging into Fractal/Kemper territory. I'm thinking about it though.
Too bad the Amplifire pedal doesn't have better amp models, that form factor would be perfect for me. I wonder if I found an IR for a bass speaker or a field coil speaker -- something a little outside the mainstream. Maybe I could combine that with the Fender Twin model and some EQ and -- oh screw it, I should just get the Kemper! :-D
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i tried my g400 straight into a fishman loudbox and found it pretty acceptable. seemed to do ok with flat tops as well, so i'm hoping that transfers over to the fishstick. i'd probably expect the electric guitar sound to be pretty bland through that or any pa-ish type amp. i was sort of planning to buy a zoom a3 for my acoustic/possibly archtop needs, but i doubt that would help with electric guitars, which i'm also planning to run through it, as you do. does it require a preamp to make it sound acceptable, or can you fix it with eq'ing (or an eq pedal) or perhaps a "character" type pedal, to impart a specific amp flavor? or as i can do with a solid state amp, some boosts or overdrive pedals to add warmth?
really wish you could run it on a battery. i've sort of given up on that dream and resigned myself to probably picking up a roland ac33 for battery needs and having a schertler (or similar) for my "nice amp" needs, when there's power around.
if it requires a preamp of some sort to sound decent (with electrics) then i may as well trot out my pedal board which is one more thing to drag around. which i'm trying to avoid for the sake of simplicity and portability, but what can you do? especially if the on board effects are a little much.
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Yup, this is the endless dilemma with gear. What's the minimum amount of "crap" you have to drag to a gig to get a good sound? I'd love to be able to do it in one trip from the car because we'll be playing some farmers markets this summer where you can't park very close to where you perform. That's why I was looking for something small like the Pod bean or that Para Driver.
Hopefully I can spend some more time tonight messing with it. For me the trade off is between getting a great sound without losing the acoustic magic that makes the L4 so special. You don't want to over-process it so it's a balancing act.
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Now I wish I hadn't sold my Tech 21 Fly Rig, that probably would have been perfect for this application. Maybe I should buy it again? That would be popular with the missus. 
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The Amplifire with, say, a Barb EQ, it's still quite small and sounds really good, to my ears-
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weirdly, i like the emerson em drive at 18v for this. the xotic ep booster at 18v isn't bad, but the em drive works a little better for me. but that's still going into an amp. haven't tried into something this clean before.
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