Gear you use on a duo gig accompanying a singer?

**Skip Ellis** · 05-07-2017, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by jads57

Unless you and the singer have specific requirements for backing tracks, I say keep it a duo. If you both enjoy working together musically, work on arrangements and ways of sharing functions. Such as her singing lines to accompany your solos.

Oh, if only it were a perfect world

**JazzNote** · 05-07-2017, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Skip Ellis

Oh, if only it were a perfect world

and yet, a perfect world probably soon become pretty boring ;-)

**Skip Ellis** · 05-07-2017, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by JazzNote

and yet, a perfect world probably soon would become pretty boring ;-)

Probably true....trials and tribulations keep us on our toes and ahead of the reaper.

**Peter C** · 05-07-2017, 03:31 PM

I concur with Alter (tasty playing, by the way!) in that, used sparingly, a looper can be a real asset. The trick is precise timing and to discreetly slip the looped part in and out. By the way, the little Boss pedal can be stopped with just one click by using an outboard footswitch like the FS5U - I'd be lost without it.

For percussion, hit your guitar!

**ronjazz** · 05-07-2017, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by ingeneri

Yep, the audience wants to hear her sing with good accompaniment, nobody cares about whether the guitarist solos. Instead of trying every trick in the book to make it a fake trio or quartet gig, embrace the possibilities of duo format for which you were hired.

Generally speaking, the audience doesn't care if a guitarist uses a looper, and in fact, rarely even notices, and asking the singer to sing every chorus all night long is asking for trouble. A looper is not fake, it is part of the creative process, as Frisell proves. A duo is hired to entertain; if the guitarist is on the level of a Joe Pass, then that will usually do. If not, using a looper gives the audience and club-owner more for their money, nothing wrong with that. I've found that a 7-string guitar and looper is a powerful little orchestra that actually piques the audience interest; I always get a few folks coming up afterwards marveling at the fullness, blah, blah, blah. The 21st century is inescapable for the next few decades.

**JazzNote** · 05-07-2017, 05:22 PM

The solution to stop the loopers which require two steps is to hit twice in time ... e.g., in 4/4 on 4 and then on 1 again. This gets pretty intuitive after a while. If remaining on the switch for a few seconds after just one hit with the foot the ditto also stops eventually, so there may be a double layer of chords for a moment which is no big deal if executed accurately.

I was willing to sacrifice the ease of just one step for the good sound of the ditto. Before i used the Boss RC2 - does anyone know how the sound of the RC2 compares to the RC3?

**Doublea A** · 05-07-2017, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by JazzNote

The solution to stop the loopers which require two steps is to hit twice in time ... e.g., in 4/4 on 4 and then on 1 again. This gets pretty intuitive after a while. If remaining on the switch for a few seconds with the foot the ditto also stops eventually, so there may be a double layer of chords for a moment which is no big deal if executed accurately.

I was willing to sacrifice the ease of just one step for the good sound of the ditto. Before i used the Boss RC2 - does anyone know how the sound of the RC2 compares to the RC3?

That's why I prefer the Digitech Jamman, it has 2 pedals one for starting the recording and one for stopping.

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**Doublea A** · 05-07-2017, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by JazzNote

The solution to stop the loopers which require two steps is to hit twice in time ... e.g., in 4/4 on 4 and then on 1 again. This gets pretty intuitive after a while. If remaining on the switch for a few seconds with the foot the ditto also stops eventually, so there may be a double layer of chords for a moment which is no big deal if executed accurately.

I was willing to sacrifice the ease of just one step for the good sound of the ditto. Before i used the Boss RC2 - does anyone know how the sound of the RC2 compares to the RC3?

I tried the boss pedal I did not like it for that exact reason

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**destinytot** · 05-07-2017, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by ronjazz

Generally speaking, the audience doesn't care if a guitarist uses a looper, and in fact, rarely even notices...

Valid reasons exist for a musician to use a looper during a performance - but I don't think either of those negative ones constitutes a valid reason.

**Stevebol** · 05-07-2017, 05:37 PM

With so many singers around someone else gets stuck with the tech stuff. It can be a challenge.
Singers could just hire/work with more people. I miss the days when you could just show up with a guitar. People want to hear vocals so we do what we have to.
Any setup can work but it amounts to karoke.
If it pays, go for it.

The Boss RC 300 is great but expensive. One thing lacking- it won't act as midi slave. If you don't need that feature it's the way to go.
I wish I could comment with some practical experience but people do use loop pedals live.

Singers have us by the cajones.

**jads57** · 05-07-2017, 06:43 PM

Just because the audience doesn't care, doesn't it matter to you as the performer? I never ever got into music as a pro musician to go the easy route. And while I can appreciate and understand making a living as a single or duo nowadays, why not give it 110% Especially when it comes to playing as a pro!

The other thing is you get nothing from computers and boxes emotionally speaking. I've done several gigs w/ computers as well as single or duo. Much better for you as the musician to have to reach for things inside yourself.

**Alter** · 05-07-2017, 07:15 PM

this duet for example, the guitarist's entire concept is based around a small looper and 2-3 pedals. I really like the music they play, and it's as creative as it gets for looper use in that style of music. They sound fine on some videos just with a guitar too. They play a lot of street gigs also (to reference the busking thead

)

**sgosnell** · 05-07-2017, 07:29 PM

Some pretty high horses in this thread. Me, I do what works for me, and spend zero time worrying about what that guy in another state or another country is doing. I will say that non-paying gigs in nursing homes can be some of the most rewarding gigs you can do. The entire audience may not be completely aware of everything going on, but you will not find a more appreciative audience anywhere.

**Skip Ellis** · 05-07-2017, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by Alter

this duet for example, the guitarist's entire concept is based around a small looper and 2-3 pedals. I really like the music they play, and it's as creative as it gets for looper use in that style of music. They sound fine on some videos just with a guitar too. They play a lot of street gigs also (to reference the busking thead

)

I can appreciate the time it took to learn to do all this with the pedals and everything, but this type music bores me to tears.

**Doctor Jeff** · 05-07-2017, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by Alter

this duet for example, the guitarist's entire concept is based around a small looper and 2-3 pedals. I really like the music they play, and it's as creative as it gets for looper use in that style of music. They sound fine on some videos just with a guitar too. They play a lot of street gigs also (to reference the busking thead

)

That kind of playing must not pay well, cause they can't afford no shoes...

**Stevebol** · 05-08-2017, 12:56 AM

Originally Posted by sgcim

I just got a call from a vocalist who wants to do a guitar/ vocal duo with me.
I already have the recent Boss Super Octave OC-3 to simulate a bass. Is anyone using that on those types of gigs?
Do you use mainly voicings on the top three strings, or do you set it so you can use the fourth string also for chords?
I've never used a loop before, but is that effective in this situation?
I don't have a rhythm box, but I do have a Boss DB-90 Metronome- has anyone used that for rhythm accompaniment?
TIA

Here's a review/comparison of the top loop pedals;

Looper Pedal Reviews - Looper Pedal Reviews & Demos

Loopers are good for vamps/grooves and ambient stuff. Many have a good storage capacity and make handy recorders. Some people will do verse, chorus, bridge with them but that too much for me.

**JazzNote** · 05-08-2017, 03:45 AM

Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff

That kind of playing must not pay well, cause they can't afford no shoes...

and it's a real drag to have to operate foot pedals without wearing shoes .....

**destinytot** · 05-08-2017, 05:06 AM

Originally Posted by sgosnell

Some pretty high horses in this thread. Me, I do what works for me, and spend zero time worrying about what that guy in another state or another country is doing. I will say that non-paying gigs in nursing homes can be some of the most rewarding gigs you can do. The entire audience may not be completely aware of everything going on, but you will not find a more appreciative audience anywhere.

'Right on' to the point about nursing homes, but not to that first sentence.

**destinytot** · 05-08-2017, 08:21 AM

An example of sophisticated use of gizmos in a jazz duo (guitar + tenor sax):

**Doublea A** · 05-08-2017, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by sgosnell

Some pretty high horses in this thread. Me, I do what works for me, and spend zero time worrying about what that guy in another state or another country is doing. I will say that non-paying gigs in nursing homes can be some of the most rewarding gigs you can do. The entire audience may not be completely aware of everything going on, but you will not find a more appreciative audience anywhere.

I agree. I play 2 to 4 high paying gigs per week. I play professionally and I see nothing wrong with using modern technology (like a looper) on a gig. If I am playing with a bassist, I do not use the looper. However, on duo gigs with saxophonist or vocalist, I definitely use the looper.

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**drbhrb** · 05-08-2017, 10:58 AM

I have no problem with people using loopers or octave pedals for duo gigs or any kind of gigs really. That being said, I think being able to accompany a horn or vocalist on a duo gig without relying on a looper is an essential skill for a working guitarist to have. Think Tuck Andress walking bass and comping. Basically, use the technology as a way to expand possibilities and not as a crutch.

**sgosnell** · 05-08-2017, 07:10 PM

'Right on' to the point about nursing homes, but not to that first sentence.

My point is that there is no one answer to this. Those saying that nobody should ever use effects, loopers, backing tracks, or anything else on a gig are on a high horse, and need to get down from it. It's fine if they don't want to use anything, that's their choice. But not all gigs are equal. Nursing home gigs are not taking food out of any musician's mouth, and there are more openings than musicians to fill them. There is no money in it for anyone, never will be, and I don't believe that it's wrong for anyone to use anything they like for them. It would be great to have a full band every time, but that will never happen. I think it's fine for anyone to use anything available for them, and for many other gigs. Saying that everyone should do as you do, no matter what, is arrogance. I agree that I would probably prefer just a guitar and amp for a duo with a singer, but I'm not everyone, and don't believe that it's anywhere within my prerogative to dictate anything to anyone. Nor for anyone else to do so.

**Skip Ellis** · 05-08-2017, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by sgosnell

My point is that there is no one answer to this. Those saying that nobody should ever use effects, loopers, backing tracks, or anything else on a gig are on a high horse, and need to get down from it. It's fine if they don't want to use anything, that's their choice. But not all gigs are equal. Nursing home gigs are not taking food out of any musician's mouth, and there are more openings than musicians to fill them. There is no money in it for anyone, never will be, and I don't believe that it's wrong for anyone to use anything they like for them. It would be great to have a full band every time, but that will never happen. I think it's fine for anyone to use anything available for them, and for many other gigs. Saying that everyone should do as you do, no matter what, is arrogance. I agree that I would probably prefer just a guitar and amp for a duo with a singer, but I'm not everyone, and don't believe that it's anywhere within my prerogative to dictate anything to anyone. Nor for anyone else to do so.

Very well said!!!

**cosmic gumbo** · 05-09-2017, 03:22 AM

The local djs feel that playing cds at a wedding reception for more $ than a small musical group is the ultimate revenge. I wish they would replace all musicians. They got a right to eat more, 'cuz they be smarter.