Gibson L-5 vs. Heritage Golden Eagle

**2bornot2bop** · 11-07-2017, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by Gitfiddler

For you, 2B...

I've always been a glutton for punishment!

**johnnyjazz** · 11-08-2017, 05:06 AM

Originally Posted by Gitfiddler

For you, 2B...

What an absolute stunner, if Mr Montgomery had played this then i think a lot of guys would be searching for "that cool Heritage sound".
You are a lucky man.

**ESCC** · 11-08-2017, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by Gitfiddler

For you, 2B...

Sorry gentlemen but I disagree with the sentiment of this post. Nothing compares to a nicely aged single malt scotch.

**Greentone** · 11-08-2017, 03:20 PM

Okay. While we are at it, there is no finer sounding electric jazz guitar than a 1937-39 Gibson ES-150 (except perhaps a pre-war ES-250). Play one in good order and the sound will ruin you for any L-5CES.

The "CES" is a GREAT second-place winner though.

**2bornot2bop** · 11-08-2017, 06:23 PM

What I want to know is, how on earth the previous owner could ever part with that GE. That's a "to the grave git" if there ever was one.

**Cavalier** · 11-08-2017, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by Greentone

Okay. While we are at it, there is no finer sounding electric jazz guitar than a 1937-39 Gibson ES-150 (except perhaps a pre-war ES-250). Play one in good order and the sound will ruin you for any L-5CES.

The "CES" is a GREAT second-place winner though.

Here is a question, Has anybody played one of the old ES150 tenors with the smaller size Charlie Christian pickup?

**Archtop Guy** · 11-09-2017, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by Dutchbopper

A few weeks ago I thought I needed an L5 - not even sure why, probably just peer pressure - and checked out 2 Wesmos. One at my home (from a friend) and one in Amseterdam. They were fine guitars but I felt the price tag was just too high. Over 6k euro for a non vintage guitar. Man, I just can't get over that. Apparently the appeal is not big enough.

DB

You do just fine with your es125!

**The Freak** · 11-13-2017, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by plectrum99x

While the more recently produced L5's are all presumably made from the same set of plans, with the same specifications, they are after all, hand made instruments, and that fact alone offers the potential for variability. But in terms of tone and playability, whether one is better than another is a matter of personal taste. And, yes, tonality tends to change with time, meaning, that older L5's will probably have a mellower tone than a brand new product, a fact that I can attest to, as I own both a 26 and a 4 year old L5 CES. Lastly, players and potential buyers have always been known to reject a given instrument for different reasons (i.e., finish, color, playability, tone, price, and so on). But remember, one man's reject is another's jewel.

Oopsy, overlooked your post. Excuses.
I think i think alike.

Best is trying multiple guitars, so you can choose the best (in your opinion).

A L5 ordered via the internet will most likely not be a monday morning model.
Thank for your help!

**jasethebop** · 04-08-2018, 01:12 PM

I don't usually get in on these threads..but! LOL!
I don't know what the fuss is about..I have a CES..I have a Custom Shop Wes..and I have a Golden Eagle..I also used to have a Super Eagle..I tried to post a photo of the first three..we'll see if it works..I don't want to post the photo ten times!

Anyway, any Kalamazoo veteran will tell you that it does not matter..
These guitars are the cream of the crop no matter which one you are playing..both models are 17" and full scale..the Heritage will have better binding work and a significantly sharper "Cupid's Bow"..the L5 will be a magnificent guitar but with far less attention to detail...but it won't matter to you when you are playing your first run of "Tenderly" on it!! LOL it will play so beautifully and sound so good that your gut will jump..and your heart will leap..!

Both instruments are such that when you are lucky enough to be the player who is taking care of these guitars..(not to mention playing them!) you will actually see these comparisons as not only superfluous..but potentially in bad taste!

Remember!

..most of us can not afford these guitars..my father left me two of these three when he died..!

BOTH models are wonderful..and I am damned lucky to have them. I wouldn't ever want to speak of these guitars like one is "better" than the other..

of course..I understand that we are just having fun..so..

I will shut up now..

**rpguitar** · 04-08-2018, 02:42 PM

Right, so what you are saying is “Ginger AND Maryann.” Which, of course, is the only sensible thing an appreciative man trapped on a desert island with such a choice would conclude. Or something like that.

**Bluedawg** · 04-08-2018, 11:24 PM

Yup

win win if you ask me

**Marty Grass** · 04-09-2018, 08:51 AM

I am continuously surprised how my guitars sound so much better when a true artist plays them.

Decades ago I was dissatisfied with the sound I got from my ES-345 and was interested in a Gibson carved archtop. A prominent jazz player tried my guitar, played it beautifully, and told me the trouble was not with the guitar.

**Klatu** · 04-09-2018, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by Marty Grass

I am continuously surprised how my guitars sound so much better when a true artist plays them.

Decades ago I was dissatisfied with the sound I got from my ES-345 and was interested in a Gibson carved archtop. A prominent jazz player tried my guitar, played it beautifully, and told me the trouble was not with the guitar.

Did the experience tell you that the problem was not the guitar or did the player?

**Klatu** · 04-09-2018, 10:20 AM

I've got three Heritage Eagles that sound very different from one another. The hand made nature of the instruments guarantee that there will be significant variation from piece to piece.

**Marty Grass** · 04-09-2018, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by Klatu

Did the experience tell you that the problem was not the guitar or did the player?

Well, both did. But that lesson is no fun.

**Bluedawg** · 04-09-2018, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by Klatu

I've got three Heritage Eagles that sound very different from one another. The hand made nature of the instruments guarantee that there will be significant variation from piece to piece.

Yup

So what we really need is to get at least one of everything .. and then again in every color

collect them all

**jasethebop** · 04-11-2018, 12:16 PM

...couldn't have said that better myself.

**TimRawson** · 11-14-2018, 01:04 AM

1984 Gibson quit making guitars in Kalmazoo MI. 1985 Heritage started making guitars in the old Gibson factory. Many of the old Gibson employees were involved in the startup and simply didn't want to move. If you bought a Kalamzoo Gibson, they were made pretty much on a custom basis. When ordered, one craftsman built the whole guitar. These were the oldest and most experienced craftsmen. Most of them are simple gone now - dead. So it doesn't matter which brand you get, it ain't going to be a vintage L5. Both factories have used the same designs, so while there may be a lot of opinions here they are basically the same design. That being said, if you want an L5 sound - then get an L5. When you start talking about cost, then I would have to say you really aren't looking for a certain sound. There are plenty of great sounds out there at all kinds of costs. But if you want an L5 then you are going to pay. And with the present conditions at Gibson, I'd suggest do it now. God only knows what's going to happen if they go bankrupt. I do want to say that an L5 played by different people - sound different. If you want the cleanest sound and articulation you have to have the action jacked up. It also makes the top perform differently as do different strings, gages and material. So what will and L5 or a Heritage Golden Eagle sound like in your hands?

**Marty Grass** · 11-14-2018, 08:29 AM

The L-5 and the Golden Eagles are not really the same designs. The Golden Eagle doesn't have the neck tongue extension, for example. The body dimensions are different, too. Then of course the pickups vary. The standard Golden Eagle with a floating pickup has a cross braced design. Parallel bracing was a custom order.

Despite all of that, both are the ancestors of Loar and made of the same woods, at least in the 1980s.

They are more alike than different.

**gitman** · 11-14-2018, 08:41 AM

When I listen to Henry Johnson play his Heritage or Russel Malone on his japanese D'Angelico I hear beuatiful music, played with passion and expertise, both in technique and stylistic/musical knowledge. So it comes down to personal preference, taste, financial possibilities and actual, physical experience with different guitars.
Comparisons of this kind lead nowhere IMHO ....
Also : when you listen to two different Wes M. albums you will mos def hear distinct differences in his sound -
the "WES SOUND" for me is in the notes he played.

**jads57** · 11-14-2018, 11:54 AM

I think the L-5 Is much heavier build in comparison .Even the acoustic versions, and this is what contributes to much of the tonal difference.
I think even the Johnny Smith models have a much heavier build as well.

**Greentone** · 11-14-2018, 12:34 PM

Ginger and Maryann, for sure. Both the Golden Eagle _and_ the L5CES are superb guitars. Different takes on the same jazz guitar concept.

I love them both, though I've settled in on a Super Eagle for the present moment. (Also a superb guitar.)

**BigMikeinNJ** · 11-14-2018, 01:27 PM

Yes, Ginger or Maryann...

My old tech in California gave me a hands on tutorial on the evolution of Gibson L5s, with newer and vintage examples he showed my how Gibson turned to a heaver top - he said they were making the same top for the CES and the acoustic versions because they'd had too many come back for repairs. Heritage tops are thinner, more acoustic, and the Gibsons because of the heaver top have a slightly darker tone. Another factor is the shape and the width of the F holes, with the Heritage being slightly wider.

I love all mine. I'm blessed to have Patrick's old set single pickup Golden Eagle, and an American Eagle (which is a very fancy Golden Eagle with hand tuned top and back) and the Heritage D'Angelico Excel (which is also very specially tuned Golden Eagle body)... They're not "better" than my '39 or '40 L5s - they're different. Each is great in it's own unique way.

Like Ginger and Maryann

**Stringswinger** · 11-14-2018, 02:07 PM

At the risk of further confusing (frustrating?) those who have not had the pleasure (privilege?) of playing many fine, hand carved archtops, IMO, they are all Ginger or Maryann to some degree. Every piece of wood is different. I would rather have a great Heritage than a mediocre Gibson (and there are some mediocre L-5's out there, I have played a few) and vice-versa.

**Gitfiddler** · 11-14-2018, 08:34 PM

Some of you fine folks have laid hands on so many amazing archtops like the currently discussed L-5 and Golden Eagle, that I would expand the metaphor to comparing one's choice of Ginger to Maryann; Sophia Loren to Gina Lollobrigida; Marylin Monroe to Jane Mansfield; etc., etc....