sound comparison Gibson ES-335 - ES-175 - Pat Martino

[r_cc_c]

[Klatu]

The 335 and 175 sounded great, but I found the Pat Martino guitar to be a touch too dark for my tastes. Thanks for posting.

[geese_com]

How does the Pat Martino do in a non-jazz setting? I haven't really seen any Martino videos playing blues or rock. I am wondering if you can play classic rock with the Martino just like you can with the ES-335.

[rio]

Do the first two have rounds and the last flats and a higher string gauge? That could be the reason it is sounding darker. I only briefly tried a pat Martino model in a store - it was not in very good condition and played poorly so I didn't even plug it in but I have always been curious about them and how they compare with an es335. They are very good looking guitars although I am not a fan of the headstock.


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[r_cc_c]

How does the Pat Martino do in a non-jazz setting? I haven't really seen any Martino videos playing blues or rock. I am wondering if you can play classic rock with the Martino just like you can with the ES-335.

[r_cc_c]

Do the first two have rounds and the last flats and a higher string gauge? That could be the reason it is sounding darker.

335 has 10-50
175 has 11-52
Martino has 12-54

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Text from the Youtube video.

Jazz Guitar sound test.
All guitar's volume: 10, tone: 10

1. Gibson Custom 1963 ES-335 Historic Block Reissue (2010)
String tension 10-50
2. Gibson ES-175 (2010)
String tension 11-52
3. Gibson Pat Martino Custom (2000)
String tension 12-54
Acoustic amp: AER Compact Classic 60
Camera: iPhone 7


From the series: the director himself))
I decided to conduct a suond test of three jazz guitars. Listen to them in the recording from the side. And then I thought, maybe someone else is interested?
I filmed for myself, so I did not try hard.
So do not judge strictly))

P.s: My little son, helps his mom shoot a video))
Director: Wife
Assistant director: Son

[rio]

Ah - I only saw the embedded video, not the text. I enjoyed hearing your kid haha. Are they all rounds then or is the Martino string with flats? The way the light was reflecting they looked like flats but it is hard to tell.


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[335dotfan]

Martino sounds best but if it's my luck it's probably the priciest of the three and hard to find. I prefer Ibanez to all but for Gibsons this teacher of mine had L-5, and vintage to boot so something I could never afford. LOL. It was a step better than 175 or 335.

[jads57]

Pat Martino guitar tone will improve clarity wise with replacing the Classic 57 p/ups with lower output mismatched coil PAF type p/ups. That was my experience with my Gibson Pat Martino.

[Cunamara]

The Martino signature model is voiced very dark, by all accounts. It was the guitar that PM used on "Remember" and it was so dark that he was indistinguishable on some of the tunes.

[rio]

I love Pat Martino but personally that tone is way too dark for my liking. With his signature guitar, that is.


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[ronjazz]

Pat's Wes album was poorly mixed. Jim Hall's tome was usually very dark, but never disappeared into the mix like Pat's on that recording.

[rob taft]

Pat's Wes album was poorly mixed. Jim Hall's tome was usually very dark, but never disappeared into the mix like Pat's on that recording.

Man, No kidding! I'm a huge PM fan and I probably own all his recorded works but that CD is almost unlistenable. I hope in the future someone remasters that CD and brings him out of the swamp.

[GNAPPI]

The Gibson Pat Martino Custom has a 14" lower bout, with the dreaded / hated snake head, a chambered mahogany body and neck, ebony FB, medium medium thin frets, 57 classic pups, and figured maple laminate top. Its chambered body is like a Midtown custom, or Vegas, or Blues hawk. It's ~1 pound lighter than a 335, the rear corners are have a radius and also a breast relief cutout in the rear like a Strat.

The 335 is a 16" lower bout and semi hollow, with maple / poplar body woods, mahogany neck, rosewood FB, medium frets, and 57 classic pups (till recently)

The only similarity to a 335 in construction specs are the pups and neck woods. If the two gits are strung the same with round wounds they do sound remarkably similar. To me it kinda flies in the face of how the maple vs. mahogany, vs. fret height, vs. everything else is just so much nothing.

Pat Martino now plays a Benedetto PM signature model with A6 pups that are supposedly darker / warmer than 57's. Personally of the recordings I've heard of him, I liked his Gibson sound better.

The Gibson PMC is NOT a dark sounding guitar unless you make it sound dark with git tone and amp EQ.

PS, I don't think PM's sound is any "darker" than Tal Farlow. I like to call it mellow.

[Stringswinger]

I had a Gibson Pat Martino. I found it fine for single lines but chords sounded muddy to me with that guitar so I let it go. To be fair, I had it strung with heavy flats. Perhaps with a set of roundwound 11's it might have sounded better to me. But I like heavy flats and do not like roundwound 11's.

IMO, the Gibson 175 and the Gibson 335 were both grand slams. The Pat Martino? I think it was a strike out. If it was a hit, they would still be making them.

[rio]

Haha - that is the one I was thinking of actually. I have been listening to it lately in the car. I guess that makes sense that it is a mixing thing.

Edit: the Wes album, that is.


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[jzjazz]

Thanks for sharing. In that setup I like the Martino most. But we are hearing much to much of the acoustic instrument (which complements with the very dark amplified sound of the Martino), which wouldn't be the case in a gig situation. The difference would be more obvious if the amp was turned heavily up and you would loose the acoustic qualities of each. And then - knowing my taste - I'd go for the 175 :-D

[Lobomov]

Pat Martino now plays a Benedetto PM signature model with A6 pups that are supposedly darker / warmer than 57's. Personally of the recordings I've heard of him, I liked his Gibson sound better.

My Ibanez PM100 came with an Benedetto A6 when I bought it (a previous owner swapped it in). I love that pup. I wouldn't call it dark. It is bright enough when the tone is fully open. Tone knob at 8 gives me something that is close to a Wes tone and it gets Metheny dark once tone knob hits 6.

[GNAPPI]

IMO, the Gibson 175 and the Gibson 335 were both grand slams. The Pat Martino? I think it was a strike out. If it was a hit, they would still be making them.

Actually, nothing Gibson makes that doesn't say Les Paul, ES-335, ES-175, or SG will fail. It's not Gibson, it's us the players who nit pick ridiculous things like the snake head.

Since you had a PM I'm surprised you found it muddy on anything, but mine is strung with rounds and it's up for a string change so I'll take special note of any change in character. I'm hoping it DOES get a bit warmer and darker.

[Naquat]

In the OP's video I like the sound of the PM although a bit boomy in the bass, perhaps that could be remedied by fine tuning the pickup angle and screws for the E & A strings.

Some of the videos I've seen of Martino with his Benedetto I don't care for at all. It's not his playing, but the guitar has no life, no dynamics, it's like he just turned down the tone pot. To each his/her own obviously but I can't imagine having that tone using a guitar that costs so much. Has anyone heard a video of that model that sounded a lot better?

The 335? Too much string slap for me, the 175 sounded better.

[Stringswinger]

Actually, nothing Gibson makes that doesn't say Les Paul, ES-335, ES-175, or SG will fail. It's not Gibson, it's us the players who nit pick ridiculous things like the snake head.

Since you had a PM I'm surprised you found it muddy on anything, but mine is strung with rounds and it's up for a string change so I'll take special note of any change in character. I'm hoping it DOES get a bit warmer and darker.

I am not the only jazz guitarist who could not bond with the Gibson PM. Read Dr. Joe Jewell's review on this page:

Text

[GNAPPI]

I am not the only jazz guitarist who could not bond with the Gibson PM. Read Dr. Joe Jewell's review on this page:

Text

Thanks for that link, it goes to show that reviews can (in his case are) be worthless. I valued your opinion Far more than his.

Somethings are not right about that reviewer in general. EVERY GUITAR on the planet is superior to the PMC? REALLY? Jeez all he needed to do was put a cracked Silvertone rated above the PMC to make it completely out of the zone.

I especially like these.

Hofner verythin - These are the reissues of the original "verathin" series guitars from the '60s. It's a 335 shaped instrument but thinner with a spruce body block,mini humbuckers and an archtop tailpiece. Extremely neck heavy. Gets a great pseudo GB-10 tone. Not very good for rock or fusion (not enough sustain). They do make a version with a stop tailpiece though. One problem with the hofners is that the pickup mounting consists of a couple screws going through the mounting rings on each side and friction fitting against the pickup cover. This design doesn't seem to work too well. The pickup covers get bent and the pickup slips or the pickup ring cracks. (2 1/2 stars) A pretty well received git here

Godin Flat 5 - I've owned two of these, one maple top, one spruce top. They are great all around instruments. String tension is high for a 24.75" guitar because of the through body design of the ferules instead of a tailpiece. It has a lot of good sounds to it including pseudo-jazz and pseudo-funk tones. Neck pickup was harsh sounding (probably due to the 24 frets). The spruce one sounded a bit better for jazz but was thin sounding for blues/fusion while the maple one sounded better for fusion/funk. I was working with Godin's Artist relation group at the time and tried to talk them into a 22 fret version. They finally did one (the montreal) but it was an all mahogany which I didn't really like. Two other issues were 1) Strings dug into the body after coming out of the ferules onto the guitar top; 2) Neck heavy (2 1/2 stars)

I REALLY like the next two... like the porridge in Riding hood: Too dark, too thin but EVERYTHING else is just right, except the PMC.

Godin Jazz - Haven't owned one but have played several. Very dark sounding pickup (2 1/2 stars)

Ibanez AS-200 / Scofield - Even though these have a few differences, they are fundamentally the same instrument. 335ish guitar with a 3pc maple neck, ebony board is the main difference along with slightly brighter pickups. My experience is that the guitar is extremely well made but just too bright. Maybe with darker pickups it'd work better.

Riding hood aside for a moment...

The Eastman T185 is a 4 star git but... " I'd probably replace the pickups with Dimarzio PAF Classics or something with a bit more oomph to them"

These reviews are laughably inconsistent. Reading just one would be fine, it's the whole page I take exception to. The T185 was my fave, I wouldn't rate ANYTHING so graciously and say I'd replace the pickups unless the PO put pups in with refrigerator magnets in it, and then I'd replace the pups before reviewing it with STOCK pups. Sheesh.

The surprising thing about his comment on chambered mahogany body gits, the Midtown Custom was overwhelmingly lauded by owners (some on this board who I respect JD you know what I mean), but Gibson still discontinued it, and then brought it back. He said... "I have not been satisfied with chambered mahogany/maple top guitars" That's a pretty broad brush stroke one that (IMO) disqualified him as a reviewer.

[Stringswinger]

Gary, all of those reviews except the PM are by Jack Zucker. Joe Jewell, who wrote the review of the PM is a fine jazz guitarist and is currently a professor of jazz guitar studies at a Southern California University. I am a big fan of Martino and really wanted to like that guitar. To date, the only artist model guitars I have been able to bond with are the Gibson Wes Montgomery L-5 and the Ibanez Joe Pass JP-20.

[agentsmith]

He said... "I have not been satisfied with chambered mahogany/maple top guitars" That's a pretty broad brush stroke one that (IMO) disqualified him as a reviewer.

lol

[GNAPPI]

Gary, all of those reviews except the PM are by Jack Zucker. Joe Jewell, who wrote the review of the PM is a fine jazz guitarist and is currently a professor of jazz guitar studies at a Southern California University. I am a big fan of Martino and really wanted to like that guitar. To date, the only artist model guitars I have been able to bond with are the Gibson Wes Montgomery L-5 and the Ibanez Joe Pass JP-20.

Stringswinger, you're respected here as most are, and I'm NOT trying to argue here, but that review is open to too many "chink in the armor" comments standing alone, open kimono so to speak.

I wonder how credible a reviewer I'd be perceived as (regardless of my qualifications) if I said...

"I've never driven an SUV that I liked" or "They have not made a side by side refrigerator I would buy" "Two seat sports cars are for old guys with pony tails trying to relive youth and get chicks" or even "So far I haven't tasted a hamburger I liked" And then went on to give any of them a crummy review? IMO ANY statement like that alone disqualifies any review. :-)

So, then he could not like a Midtown (as I said) , or Les Paul chambered traditional, Fender Mahogany Slimline or other similar chambered git? There are millions of us who would call that review terribly worthless based only on the statement. But he went on to say... "I’m sure they are much easier to make than guitars with sides, back and top" So unless it has separate back and sides, he's NOT going to suffer them at all? Hmmm... Sorry, your car weighs less than 5 tons, takes 9 hours to build so it's a junk car mindset?

Actually regarding chambered gits, this is according to Gibson...

"It costs us extra time and effort to do it… but we feel good about doing it"

So Gibson according to him is full of dung. Ok so maybe sometimes Gibson gets involved in too much marketing hype, but coming from a professor I would "think" he would eliminate such disqualifying statements.

Anyway, I get that artist model statement you made. I'm not terribly fond of many signature Les Paul models, and the only other signature models I have are a Howard Roberts Fusion and Epi Joe Pass.

For others bored with MY opinion... Here's MANY more positive, no "chambered git" bias, and no dark sound complaints.

User Reviews for Gibson Pat Martino Custom at Harmony Central

Gibson Custom Pat Martino Custom Electric Guitar | Musician's Friend (one guy didn't like a tuner tilt)

From two of us at JGF (sorry I'm there too)

NGD: Gibson Pat Martino Custom