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This is probably a bit of a silly question since there are so many options out there for archtop's these days but I've got this idea in my head; a Loar LH700 or 650, with a CC Pickups Charlie Christian installed. The 700 has the materials I want and the trim I like, maple neck and stinger and apparently higher quality wood?
But it isn't available with a cutaway and the 750 is like hens teeth used! The alternative is a 650 with a bit less ornamentation and a 'hog neck, but it does come with a cutaway - which I think would be useful for a more versatile instrument over all?
Unfortunately neither are available locally so it would be mail order which means no play and see sadly. Can anyone on the internet convince me I'm worry over nothing for a little extra fret access?!
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04-01-2017 07:41 PM
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Have you seen this video?
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Yep, part of my inspiration behind the idea! I would be getting a luthier to do the work mind you, I can just about manage to screw together IKEA furniture
Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
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I would worry if it were me but I need the upper fret access. You either need it or you don't - do you need it?
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If you play primarily jazz, you can usually live within the 3 1/4 octaves easily afforded by a non-cutaway (IMHO, YMMV, etc.). If you play blues or rock, you might want the upper fret access of a cutaway. Even though I have a cutaway on my archtop, there really isn't that much more access due to the 3" thick body. If you need a lot of high fret access, you should probably play a solidbody or semihollow.
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I found that it makes maybe a 2-5% difference. You could do without a cutaway usually.
I don't see a down side to having a cutaway if available. If not, I'll bet you'd do fine.
If you are playing blues or fusion, why not get a 335?
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I've had that mod carried out on a Loar LH-600, the lack of a cutaway is a non issue for me, but it really depends on your personal playing style.
My take on it is that the Ab on the 1st string, 16th fret, is basically the top note on an alto saxophone without an F# key, before it goes altissimo, and that can be reached easily. In fact, that guitar actually makes me think it's a saxophone
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I'm primarily a blues and rock player, and I lose very little on my non-cut flattop, myself. I guess I don't like those dog-calling notes all that much? Don't get me wrong, loved an acoustic cut owned a couple of years ago for its access, but I play that high rare enough that it just gets the, ahem, reach-around.
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Matt, why not consider the new Eastman with the CC pickup? By the time you add up the cost of hiring a luthier, parts and The Loar, you are almost at the same price. And the Eastman has better resale value since it is a factory original.
InstagramLast edited by Jabberwocky; 04-02-2017 at 04:58 AM.
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My first guitar was a non-cutaway. It got frustrating and I never bought another non-cutaway instrument.
And, while a certain traditional jazz guitar style may not involve a lot of notes played above the 12th fret, in fact, there's plenty of use for those notes. The issue, I think, is making sure they don't sound too thin or tinny.
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Wow! Hadn't seen that model before. There would also be the option of putting a Biltoft CC Rider in an AR371. I think that would be pretty cool too! Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
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I find the problem comes when you primarily play cutaway guitars and then occasionally play ones that do not have one. More than once I have forgotten, and driven my left hand right into the upper bout of a non cutaway guitar.
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One can easily play single notes or runs in the higher frets on a non-cutaway. However, chords is another story--there are only a handful of songs I play where chording above the 12th fret is typical. For chord-melody it requires a work-around, but for comping not an issue--just play a lower inversion.
I have a NC Godin 5th Avenue that I play and even gig with from time to time without any problems whatsoever. In fact, I think a NC like the Godin should be everyone's first jazz guitar.
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Wow, I haven't seen that. Looks interesting. Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
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1) Has anyone actually seen one of the CC-pickup equipped Eastmans in the wild? Is there pricing? Don't get your hopes up. I remember how excited I was when Loar announced they were doing an ES-150 repro.. and then they said it was $4k, and they actually made only maybe 5. I paid less than that for my '37 ES-150 a year later. I doubt the Eastman would be that expensive, but, then again, it may just be a one-off, and even if not, who knows when would be available for purchase.
2) I don't play any cutaway equipped guitars, and I get by. The only issues I have are related more to a 12-fret neck on my National, but every other archtop is 14-fret, so it's no big deal.
3) Although no one will ever say archtop.com's prices are low, I have had at least three friends commission Joe to put a UK CC-Pickup in a Loar 600 or 700. Given that they've done "the operation" a couple times now, and I can personally vouch for those being well done, great playing and sounding, I have no reservation recommending him as the place to get one done. Plus, he can do everything in house, and give a flat rate for the guitar, pickup, installation, knobs, jack, guard, etc. It won't be cheap, but it'll be one-stop shopping, and there's value to the time and effort you'd put in hunting all of that stuff down.
I have had some other friends who've modified Loars, or even ES-150's with CC pickups, and had the work done by other luthiers who've also turned out excellent work, so there's no monopoly.Last edited by campusfive; 04-02-2017 at 12:28 PM.
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Just bought my first no cutaway archtop. A Godin 5th Ave Kingpin. I don't even think about the access when I'm playing it. I have a few solid bodies and a 335 for that.
Last edited by johnzias; 04-02-2017 at 10:10 PM.
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Thanks everyone for the replies, I do have a lovely strat for the rockier stuff so I don't think I would be at a loss if a gig came up where that was needed. I do like the idea of a 'one guitar fits all' mentality but alas.
That Eastman above, wow! Are they going into production? It looks amazing!
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Yes: Eastman AR905CC Custom Edition Archtop w/ Lollar Charlie Christian Pup!! #40169 | eBay Originally Posted by campusfive
It's more expensive than a 1970 ES 175 CC.
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I stopped doing ebay so I was not aware...Wow, I thought it would come in at $2000...I thought wrongly. Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
For a little under $3000 new, I will be giving me friend, Masaki Nishimura-san, a call.
Last edited by Jabberwocky; 04-02-2017 at 07:05 PM.
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Noncuts have a bit more low end. That's even true electrically, I think. It is like going from a 16 inch guitar to 17 inch. Plus for vintage guitars it is cheaper. I play an ES-300 that cost me half what the cutaway version (ES-350) goes for.
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My main archtop (Gretch G-400 Synchromatic) is a non-cutaway guitar with a floating CC pickup. Very rarely do I miss the cutaway. It's not that often that I even need to go beyond the 15th fret or so.
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My take is that if you're used to playing cutaway guitars, it might take some time to get used to the limited upper fret access of a non cutaway. However, the learning curve is very short, so if you stick to it you should have very little trouble adjusting. I don't regret having bought any of my non cutaway guitars.
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I definitely prefer the cutaway.
I can tell you for sure, if my D'Angelico Excel had a cutaway, I'd still have it. I'd be broke, but I'd still have it..
Any great guitar allows for upper fret access with clarity in the notes. I think improvisation would be boring for me if I didn't have access to the upper frets. And pretty much every arrangement I play requires notes in the 12-17 fret range.
JD
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I seem to recall a story that Johnny Smith broke off his tie with Guild because they did not make the cutaway to his specifications; he wanted the guitar maker to build it as a non-cut, and then saw off the cutaway portion, and that this was because a guitar made the other way would sound plinky in its upper register. Do I have this right?
I have always wondered why piano makers, when they make models with less than 88 keys, take any keys off the lower register; those are all useful notes, while the plinky keys at the top are almost never played.
The bottom line is that the very high notes don't (to my ear) sound very good on acoustic instruments. Amplification cures some of this.
How high did Charlie Christian go?
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As the current owner of JD's D'Angelico Excel (and two other vintage D'Angelicos that lack a cutaway) I can say that at times the lack of a cutaway does present a problem. While in theory, one could play classical style and get those upper notes, in practice you cannot. There is a reason that D'Angelicos with a cutaway sell for twice as much as the non-cut ones do. The cutaway was an important part of the evolution of the jazz guitar. I love my three non cut DA's, but play most of my gigs on guitars with a cutaway. Originally Posted by Max405
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