Solid State amp for a Gibson ES-175 classic tone

**whiskey02** · 03-15-2017, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff

Observations on Stolen Moments YouTube above:

All guys playing guitars for a clip should wear shirts with sleeves and socks. It should be mandatory. (No offense if anyone on the forum was the guy playing the guitar--the playing is GOOD.)

I dig the iPad stand.

That looks like a Peerless Sunset in the case to his left. Would like to hear it A/B'd with the 175.

The "guy playing" is Dutchbopper and he is miles beyond just good. Most members wouldn't notice or care if he performed in boxers and clogs. Don't look, listen.

**Max405** · 03-15-2017, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by coolvinny

Don't forget about the Henriksen Alfresco - open back and 12" speaker.

Oh man, I forgot about that one. Thats in my bucket. Along with the Quilter MicroPro that Rich Severson plays with all the cool lights on the front panel.

JD

**eblydian** · 03-15-2017, 12:07 PM

Mambo

(And it's on your side of the pond)

**lawson-stone** · 03-15-2017, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by joaopaz

I've been reading threads and threads here, trying to make my mind. The reason being that I have very few options I could try myself.

Henriksen, DV Mark, Mambo, ZT - these are some brands still in production that come up a lot here in the forum.

I have a valve Fender Hotrod Deluxe. It sounds super but i can't dial in the tone I'm after... and it's big and heavy! I'd like something easy to carry around and gig.

Ok, main thing would be the tone, something that could go hand in glove with an ES-175...!

What would you choose?
Thanks!

Here's a clip I made up for your consideration. It's the Gibson 1959VOS ES175 and the Epiphone ES175 Premium, playing a bit of the Jimmy Raney solo you and I are working on in the Study Group. The guitars are going into the DV Mark Micro 50 Head (which is the same electronics as the DVMark Jazz). The XLR out is then going direct to a ProSonus AudioBox Two, and from there via USB to my iPhone 6 for recording.

Both guitars have volume/tone on 10. Amp is EQ'd at 5 all bands, a little bit of reverb.

This should give you an idea what amp does to the tone. I like it, and I also like it via the speaker. I think I have some of this with the cabinet mic'd as well that I can link to you if you think it will help.

**icr** · 03-15-2017, 12:54 PM

Any amp should be fine. I can't tell which amp I used for any of my own recordings. Sometimes I even go direct.

**christianm77** · 03-15-2017, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by whiskey02

The "guy playing" is Dutchbopper and he is miles beyond just good. Most members wouldn't notice or care if he performed in boxers and clogs. Don't look, listen.

Unacceptable. One should present YouTube videos in full evening attire.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 03-15-2017, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Unacceptable. One should present YouTube videos in full evening attire.

I admit, an entire band in zoot suits would be the coolest.

**lawson-stone** · 03-15-2017, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff

Observations on Stolen Moments YouTube above:

All guys playing guitars for a clip should wear shirts with sleeves and socks. It should be mandatory. (No offense if anyone on the forum was the guy playing the guitar--the playing is GOOD.)

I dig the iPad stand.

That looks like a Peerless Sunset in the case to his left. Would like to hear it A/B'd with the 175.

Hey for us balding old guys, that is completely appropriate attire. Dutchbopper can wear a sleeveless shirt without embarrassment. Any documented muscle in the upper arm is all that is needed for that to be legit.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 03-15-2017, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff

Observations on Stolen Moments YouTube above:

All guys playing guitars for a clip should wear shirts with sleeves and socks. It should be mandatory. (No offense if anyone on the forum was the guy playing the guitar--the playing is GOOD.)

Socks ... with sandals?

**Doctor Jeff** · 03-15-2017, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by whiskey02

The "guy playing" is Dutchbopper and he is miles beyond just good. Most members wouldn't notice or care if he performed in boxers and clogs. Don't look, listen.

Oops, do I have egg on my face...

I am sorry Mr. Bopper--just making a joke. ;-)

Like I said, GREAT playing! I do play in Birkenstocks, though with socks in the winter. As far as sleeveless shirts, I'm waiting til I get that ES-175 tattoo on my bicep, then...

joaopaz · 03-15-2017, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by bmw2002

Given your criteria (and depending on the size of the venue(s) you're playing), I'd recommend a hard look at the Henriksen Bud. Lots written about it here and other places.

By the way, visited Lisbon/Sintra last year and loved it -- didn't make it up to Porto, but that's on the list of places to go soon.

I have a friend who's about to order a Bud so I may be lucky and have the chance to try one. That's one amp also on my list, I'm seriously considering it ... plus a cabinet.

About Lisboa and Sintra, lovely isn't it? The light there is special... that's one thing we sure miss in Porto, that special sunlight! But if you ever come again give a call

Will be glad to show you some places and have a couple of beers chatting about tone and amps and JAZZ!

joaopaz · 03-15-2017, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by Klatu

Any of the amps you listed should do the trick. In fact, my first choice would be the one you already own, the Fender Hotrod Deluxe.

Here are a couple of clips of Martijn Van Iterson playing his Gibson 125 through a Fender Hotrod Deville. It could be among my favorite electric jazz guitar tone of all time:

Gotta agree with you, wonderful tone ... and playing!

joaopaz · 03-15-2017, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Yeah, you know what I friggin' hate the Hotrod Deluxe for a 175. It's NASTY (and not in a nice way). BUT - I believe you can mod them to sound less like balls. Probably the speaker is the first call. Anyone?

Probably sound great with a tele.

I bet Martin what'shisface above modded his. Makes sense - lots of headroom in that amp so it should be a good jazz platform in theory... Maybe the George Benson model is better?

My experience is that Gibsons in general can be princesses when it comes to amps. A Tele will get on with everyone, but those Gibbos are real snobs, and quite randomly too.

My Fender Princeton Reverb is ideal. Not light, but certainly not as heavy as a DeVille.

Other options? Well people like the mambos don't they *shrugs* never been that impressed with them, but YMMV. Problem is, speaker's too small and that's a problem with all small portable amps really, whatever fancy tech they use to try and make them sound fuller.

But a 10" is ample IMO.

Henricksen JazzAmps (basically polytones) sound good...

I used a ZT lunchbox for ages. Died. Also sounded better with single coils.

Great info, too, thanks Christian.

About the Hotrod.... it's strange because it has a great and full sound, easy on the bandstand.. (aside the weight ... it's terrible when you have to carry your own gear!) but at the same time I'm making this distinction between sound and tone. It's the tone I can't dial in...... but I must say this:
A couple of weeks ago I switched the neck pu on my Ibanez AFJ95 .. I put a Bare Knuckles "Manhattan"; it's an incredible pickup and that guitar/pickup, for the 1st time since I bought the amp, made me go "wow" with the sound coming out of it.
But I can't help think it could also sound as great or better with a Polytone

One other thing I must rant about that amp... I swear I don't get it.... Fender! In an amp that costs about 900Eur they put a rubber handle that broke on the very first day I got the amp! I think I was getting it out of the cardboard box... Luckilly I had read about that handle thing on forums so I was paying attention. But, man, what a business card!
Also, the plugs on the reverb unit already disconnected twice... and I only took that amp out once. Because of that (and because of each and every Fender I bought) I'm done with Fender. I'm sure you guys will have wonderful stories - it would be strange if you didn't - but I came to hate their stuff.

Back to subject:
Why did you write "Henricksen JazzAmps (basically polytones)". I'm curious!

oh.... and give one of those princesses any day!

joaopaz · 03-15-2017, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by Longways to Go

+1 to the Acoustic Image Clarus/Raezer's Edge combination. Super

I also have the Henriksen 110 ER and the DV Mark Little Jazz. They are great sounding amps too, but the Clarus sounds best to my ears. All good choices IMO. One thing worth noting -- the Little Jazz is the cheapest by a longshot!

The Little Jazz would be the easy choice for me. Price and easy to order online; also I like everything I heard online so far. But lately being so focused in tone I came to discover how far from hearing them live the online samples can sound. So I'm being carefull ...

Since you have both, the Henriksen is what' Maybe 2 times the price of the DV Mark? Its it twice as good?

I'll do check the AI Clarus, thanks!

joaopaz · 03-15-2017, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

Here's a clip I made up for your consideration. It's the Gibson 1959VOS ES175 and the Epiphone ES175 Premium, playing a bit of the Jimmy Raney solo you and I are working on in the Study Group. The guitars are going into the DV Mark Micro 50 Head (which is the same electronics as the DVMark Jazz). The XLR out is then going direct to a ProSonus AudioBox Two, and from there via USB to my iPhone 6 for recording.

Both guitars have volume/tone on 10. Amp is EQ'd at 5 all bands, a little bit of reverb.

This should give you an idea what amp does to the tone. I like it, and I also like it via the speaker. I think I have some of this with the cabinet mic'd as well that I can link to you if you think it will help.

Thanks, Lawson! Something to consider for sure, head and cabinet.

Great sound on your sample, on both guitars - thak you for the effort, I really appreciate it! One question: while both guitars sound lovely the Epi is more "present" ... sounds "closer". Do you have the neck pickup height probably closer to the strings on that one?

**Longways to Go** · 03-15-2017, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by joaopaz

The Little Jazz would be the easy choice for me. Price and easy to order online; also I like everything I heard online so far. But lately being so focused in tone I came to discover how far from hearing them live the online samples can sound. So I'm being carefull ...

Since you have both, the Henriksen is what' Maybe 2 times the price of the DV Mark? Its it twice as good?

I'll do check the AI Clarus, thanks!

2 times as good? NO. But 2 times the power for sure.
Quality of the Henriksen is excellent. Nice plywood cabinet -- built to last for years.
But I do like the DV Mark EQ controls better.

**lawson-stone** · 03-15-2017, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by joaopaz

Thanks, Lawson! Something to consider for sure, head and cabinet.

Great sound on your sample, on both guitars - thak you for the effort, I really appreciate it! One question: while both guitars sound lovely the Epi is more "present" ... sounds "closer". Do you have the neck pickup height probably closer to the strings on that one?

Looking back at my source clips, though I recorded them with the amp and pots identical, in the mastering I boosted the Epiphone a little. I re-did the clip with them mastered with the same amount of gain.

Still, the Epiphone sounds more "articulate." Both guitars are maple laminates with mahogany neck, both have Classic 57's, but the Epiphone has the metal ABR-1 bridge, the ES175 has the rosewood bridge. I think that accounts for the difference in tone. The bridge type has a dramatic effect on the quality of sound coming from two otherwise very similarly made guitars.

Here's a link to the re-mastered clip with the same amount of gain on each one. You can still hear a difference, but I think the bridge difference easily explains it.

**coolvinny** · 03-15-2017, 11:22 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

That's only available from Sound Island, right?

I think so, but why would anyone want to buy from anywhere else anyway? Michael has the best service and selection around.

**eblydian** · 03-16-2017, 05:13 AM

Originally Posted by joaopaz

The Little Jazz would be the easy choice for me. Price and easy to order online; also I like everything I heard online so far. But lately being so focused in tone I came to discover how far from hearing them live the online samples can sound. So I'm being carefull ...

Indeed. I strongly encourage you to try the Little Jazz before buying. I bought one online and was totally disappointed with the sound, not to mention the fan noise. Got rid of it months later.
I'm not saying you shouldn't buy one. I'm just saying try it first. The real sound is miles away from any review or promotional video you may find on YT.
Just my two cent.

**ChrisDowning** · 03-16-2017, 06:06 AM

I certainly wouldn't discount a Roland Cube 60 or 80 for its 12" speaker or the 40 with a 10". They are a straight up amp that's light, not costly, very reliable. After that I'd look at a valve version of the Fender Princeton. I had a Reverb for 30 years that never went wrong and sounded - well lush is the only word. The Princeton is the one channel version (kind-of). And then I would want to see what ACUS have that might do the job - being very new technology - so there must be some progress in there somewhere. You also need to decide whether you want reverb in the amp. With jazz no reverb sounds OK - but if you do solo gigs - bet you'll miss it sometime out in the future.

Bottom line- I'd be looking new design from someone like ACUS. Smaller, louder, cleaner, lighter, reliable. Second choice one of the Rolands - that way you get to keep more money and ask yourself - do paying customers really notice?

**jads57** · 03-16-2017, 10:47 AM

Quilter Aviator 1x8"

**christianm77** · 03-16-2017, 11:57 AM

How about a Mark Bass Mini Cube (whatever they are called?) I remember plugging in a guitar and being very pleasantly surprised...

There might be something to be said for buying a small cheap class D guitar amp and bypassing the preamp by going into the Effects return.... I'm wondering if that would work on a Orange Micro Terror, for instance. Those amps have plenty of head room - if you avoid the preamp stage.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 03-16-2017, 12:09 PM

How many watts?

How many watts do you expect from a giggable amp? I notice the Orange Micro Terror is 20W, while Mambo amps boast 200W or 400W (I'm a bit confused). How much is enough, if we are talking SS amps. I always thought you can never have too much, muh self.

**christianm77** · 03-16-2017, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

How many watts?

How many watts do you expect from a giggable amp? I notice the Orange Micro Terror is 20W, while Mambo amps boast 200W or 400W (I'm a bit confused). How much is enough, if we are talking SS amps. I always thought you can never have too much, muh self.

Well, an example from my own life - the ZT Lunchbox is 200W.

That's actually:

Solid State amp for a Gibson ES-175 classic tone-60677932-jpg

If you ever plug this amp into an external speaker, please stand back a safe distance.

I used to plug into a small cab with great trepidation. That thing needs a 4 X 12. I'm assuming most jazz guitarists will be happy with something a little less..... Overpowered. It's like having a Marshall stack or something.

It gets very silly with the class D stuff.

I'm assuming the Mambo is similar - anyone had any experience with this?

I'm guessing as a jazzer, if you get a lightweight head, you probably want something you can run through a small cab. Get an efficient speaker and a 20W amp will be fine.

Now - I'm not an amp expert, so please shoot me down in flames if you have better info, but the way I understand it is this:

And no SS/Tube makes no difference. It's all on the efficiency of the speaker AFAIK.

1) Small amps with small speakers like the Lunchbox, Mambo etc put a lot of power into the bass to make the amps sound bigger and warmer... So the speaker is not so efficient necessarily, it's all about having a musical result. But you can make SS amps small and light now, so more power into a smaller speaker is a good approach for that type of super compact amp.

Not sure how it works with the AER alpha as that's only 40W, but that's still a lot I guess compared to, say a Fender Champ.

2) Many SS amps are cheap, and are therefore fitted with cheap, inefficient speakers. Speaker swap is probably the best mod you can do for any cheap amp...

**ChrisDowning** · 03-16-2017, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

How about a Mark Bass Mini Cube (whatever they are called?) I remember plugging in a guitar and being very pleasantly surprised...

There might be something to be said for buying a small cheap class D guitar amp and bypassing the preamp by going into the Effects return.... I'm wondering if that would work on a Orange Micro Terror, for instance. Those amps have plenty of head room - if you avoid the preamp stage.

Bass amps are nearer to neutral - rather like a PA - and sometimes sound really good for jazz style work. Of course this sets us out on a different path. What about something like a Sans Amp from Tech 21? Anyone tried that route to jazz sound?