Toob - Ultra-light guitar speaker

**Gitterbug** · 01-12-2017, 09:26 AM

Hi guys, it's Gitterbug. Check this out!

It's about the TOOB^TM, a 9-10 lbs (4-4.5 kg) guitar speaker loaded with a 12", up to 100 W Neo driver. It will be available in two configurations, open (perfect for jazz and many other genres of music) and ported (with enhanced bass end for rock 'n' roll).

The project is mine so I'll be happy to answer any questions you might have. We have not pressed the button yet to launch into commerce. An €€€€ investment for tooling is required. The amount and direction of thumbs on social media will be our proxy for market research, so do spread the link to your brothers and sisters in arms.

If this was a racing bike weighing 60% less than nearest competitor, we could charge anything. Depending on the business model (yet to be decided on; proposals will be considered) and projected volumes, we will probably end up in the €/$ 350-450 ballpark. For the price of one boutique cabinet you could daisy-chain two of these. Inside, there would be the same Jensen Jet Tornados or Celestion Neo Creambacks.

If you think here's a nice DIY project, feel free to try, as long as you don't sell to others. The design is protected EU wide. There's more than meets the eye. And it all started from the needs of an aging, brokeback amateur jazz guitarist recovering from major surgery. After eight years and three more operations, we are almost there.

**agentsmith** · 01-12-2017, 09:57 AM

you should reframe this to be "speaker cabinet", not speaker.

**agentsmith** · 01-12-2017, 09:59 AM

I would look at some speaker alternatives too. Neither of those 2 speakers is known to be a great speaker for jazz guitar.

**Gitterbug** · 01-12-2017, 10:34 AM

To Agentsmith: You are probably correct. The terminology is a bit fuzzy, however. Speaker, I think, is common shorthand for the speaker element/driver/transducer alone and the enclosure/cabinet/housing where it resides. I find it hard to call this drum-like enclosure a cabinet. And we are talking about the loaded product, not just the enclosure.

**Gitterbug** · 01-12-2017, 10:47 AM

Apart from the two mentioned, we have been testing Eminence's Lil' Texas and Celestion's Century Vintage. The latter weighs 200 g less that the rest. There aren't many more Neo elements to choose from, at least on this side of the pond. DV Mark's Neoclassic is said to be close to Jensen, only it takes a higher wattage. Not tried yet. If Tonkerlite is more "British" than Lil' Texas, I'd expect "brown" and nasal mids, not to my liking.

Anyway, the perceived differences when playing clean are quite small. Launching a new, totally unknown product, it's safer to use a branded, quality driver rather than a cheaper OEM unit from Italy or China. Yet, there might well be good ones among them.

**Gitterbug** · 01-12-2017, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by agentsmith

I would look at some speaker alternatives too. Neither of those 2 speakers is known to be a great speaker for jazz guitar.

I forgot to mention Eminence's Basslite S2012. For plain, old-fashioned dark jazz tone it works very well, also through a G+K MB 200 amp. Doing mainly Swing comping and soloing, the volume of 3rd harmonics isn't an issue. BTW, the only reason I'm not using this amp all the time is the lack of on-board reverb. Fender's Rumble 200 has a wider and warmer tonal range. It's acceptable weight-wise but is a lot bigger, and no reverb either. Hence, for the time being, my No. 1 amp choice is DV Mark Micro 50. For those after a more processed sound, the BluGuitar Amp1 might be a solution. Thomas Blug recently tested a TOOB proto. At least he was all smiles on the photo (my son was there).

**Gitterbug** · 01-12-2017, 11:04 AM

Apart from the two mentioned, we have been testing Eminence's Lil' Texas and Celestion's Century Vintage. The latter weighs 200 g less that the rest. There aren't many more Neo elements to choose from, at least on this side of the pond. DV Mark's Neoclassic is said to be close to Jensen, only it takes a higher wattage. Not tried yet. If Tonkerlite is more "British" than Lil' Texas, I'd expect "brown" and nasal mids, not to my liking.

Anyway, the perceived differences when playing clean are quite small. Launching a new, totally unknown product, it's safer to use a branded, quality driver rather than a cheaper OEM unit from Italy or China. Yet, there might well be good ones among them.

**agentsmith** · 01-12-2017, 11:09 AM

No, in any of the gear forums speaker is known as the driver. Speaker cab is the correct terminology for guitar gear folks. Speaker is the proper term for lay-people in the generic-audio world.

Originally Posted by Gitterbug

To Agentsmith: You are probably correct. The terminology is a bit fuzzy, however. Speaker, I think, is common shorthand for the speaker element/driver/transducer alone and the enclosure/cabinet/housing where it resides. I find it hard to call this drum-like enclosure a cabinet. And we are talking about the loaded product, not just the enclosure.

**paulkogut** · 01-12-2017, 11:29 AM

I agree with the "speaker cabinet' terminology. I already have fairly light neo speakers in my Kolbe cabinets (swapped out from the 'bolted to the floor EV12L's) , so I almost passed this post by. Having the possibility of a smaller, lighter cabinet (that could possibly fit in a checked suitcase?) is something I'm very interested in.

PK

**Jim Soloway** · 01-12-2017, 12:07 PM

Love it. I see you've already thought of matching it up with a Gallien Krueger MB200. Is it shipping yet and if not when will that be happening? With the right speaker, I could see it being a good match for bass players as well.

**Greentone** · 01-12-2017, 12:43 PM

Interesting, practical design. Kudos. Smart to have been using the G-K micro amp, too.

Guitarists who hop mass transit to get to the gig should love this.

If you can get around trademarks, call it the "uber-cab."

**Gitterbug** · 01-12-2017, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by Meggy

Looks great - I really wish you success bringing this to market, I'd certainly be interested myself.

Meggy, I've tried to thank you several times already but for some reason the message hasn't shown up. If this becomes nothing, I'll keep a prototype earmarked for you!

**Gitterbug** · 01-12-2017, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by Jim Soloway

Love it. I see you've already thought of matching it up with a Gallien Krueger MB200. Is it shipping yet and if not when will that be happening? With the right speaker, I could see it being a good match for bass players as well.

Oops, looks like I almost revealed we're working on a bass version as well. The double bass players in particular have been quite happy with the first prototypes. They have a navy's worth of volume to tote around, and many have to contend with heavy amps designed for rock purposes. The boutique ones cost a fortune. This could actually be an important market niche, but we'll go guitar first. Provided we get enough support (just thumbs, no money), it will take six weeks to produce the necessary tooling and set up a website/webstore. By then, CE/RoHS certifications will be in place. I'd say that if we decide to go ahead, the first products will be shipped by the end of Q1 2017.

**Jim Soloway** · 01-12-2017, 01:01 PM

I really only have one suggestion: stay away from cosmetics like that flower print. If you want it to be taken seriously, I think you're much better off having it look industrial rather than frivolous. It's a product I'll be serious about but I'd order mine in all-black.

**mr. beaumont** · 01-12-2017, 01:06 PM

I like the idea, would be concerned that i'd need to find a new place to put my amp head as it won't balance on top of a round enclosure.

**Gitterbug** · 01-12-2017, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by Greentone

Interesting, practical design. Kudos. Smart to have been using the G-K micro amp, too.

Guitarists who hop mass transit to get to the gig should love this.

If you can get around trademarks, call it the "uber-cab."

Good idea! We have been spending some time on naming, but many good ones were taken. FYI, the original prototype from 2008 is called "Ur-Sewer", as the plastic pipe we are using is actually used by the construction industry for rainwater management. It offers a superior cost/weight/strength/availability relationship. Carbon fiber would cost 100X, and the air chambers produced by the corrugated, double-layered structure may well improve the sound. These pipes come in PE (polyethylene) and PP (Polypropylene). We only use the latter, being stronger, although it's more expensive and harder to work on. We also stick to the slightly heavier quality, which withstands 8 tons of radial pressure per sq.m.

**Jim Soloway** · 01-12-2017, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I like the idea, would be concerned that i'd need to find a new place to put my amp head as it won't balance on top of a round enclosure.

I think that's what the plate installed on the top of the cab in the video is for, It shows a pair of them in the live section of the video with MB200's on each so at least it works for micro heads.

**mr. beaumont** · 01-12-2017, 01:10 PM

Yeah, way too small for my Henriksen Convertible.

**Jim Soloway** · 01-12-2017, 01:13 PM

Thinking about it a bit more ... I'd love to see a 10" version as well (or even an 8). With the right speaker being powered by an MB200, that could be an amazingly portable rig.

**Gitterbug** · 01-12-2017, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I like the idea, would be concerned that i'd need to find a new place to put my amp head as it won't balance on top of a round enclosure.

On the video you see a small "platform" with velcro strips. Corresponding strips under the micro-amp's bottom make the thing a combo in actual gigging situations. I often go to jam sessions, where people move in and out all the time. Often there's no house amp. irrespective, many guitarists insist on their own gear, and so do I - for obvious reasons. The velcro trick removes the need of a third hand.

**mr. beaumont** · 01-12-2017, 01:17 PM

Right, but that means I need to use a "micro-amp." Which I could probably get into.

Still think your idea has legs. Nice work.

**Gitterbug** · 01-12-2017, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by Jim Soloway

Thinking about it a bit more ... I'd love to see a 10" version as well (or even an 8). With the right speaker being powered by an MB200, that could be an amazingly portable rig.

Jim, I have made 10" versions. They sound fine. However, given the standard diameter of the pipe, you need an adaptor plate for the smaller driver. That's a cost and a minor complexity (the 12" unit is held in place by the clamping ring, no other screws), and the the weight saving is almost cancelled out by the plate and nuts&bolts. I have a DV Mark Little Jazz for comparison purposes and don't think too highly of a 8" speaker for gigging purposes.

**Jim Soloway** · 01-12-2017, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by Gitterbug

Jim, I have made 10" versions. They sound fine. However, given the standard diameter of the pipe, you need an adaptor plate for the smaller driver. That's a cost and a minor complexity (the 12" unit is held in place by the clamping ring, no other screws), and the the weight saving is almost cancelled out by the plate and nuts&bolts. I have a DV Mark Little Jazz for comparison purposes and don't think too highly of a 8" speaker for gigging purposes.

I was thinking more of the size than the weight. For portability that's almost as much of an issue. As for the 8" speaker, it's a really a function of which speaker you use. The Raezer's Edge NY8 (I believe with an Eminence Beta 8A) works great for jazz. It's a very high wattage speaker with that ability to get quite loud without breaking up. I had the same speaker in an ear candy cab and it did very well. Given that the real prize here is portability, I think it would be useful to give reduced size as much thought as reduced weight.

BTW, we're considering a 4 month road trip to Mexico next fall and I've wondering how to drag along a small amp in a very small car so my thoughts are not at all theoretical.

**Gitterbug** · 01-12-2017, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Yeah, way too small for my Henriksen Convertible.

Can't help grabbing on this one. After my first thigh (quadriceps) tendon operation, out went a Fender Hot Rod De Luxe and in came a Henriksen Convertible. A great product. I chose the Convertible just to be able to use the head separately on my concoctions. Before that, I tried the Crate Powerblock, a tonal disaster.

You are right, the Henriksen is too large to sit atop the TOOB. So are all full-sized tube amps. That's why I built myself a stand combining an amp tray, note stand, hooks to hang two guitars and space for a speaker cab or two round 'uns underneath. I wanted to call it Playstation but my grandchildren tell me the name's taken by a Japanese company...

In actual gigging situations, I've always found a chair, table, windowsill or beer case to rest a larger amp on. And, of course, I'm secretly expecting people to discover that a 2X12 TOOB will still weigh less than a normal 1x12" box. You can drop any amp on top of a pair.

**Gitterbug** · 01-12-2017, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Jim Soloway

I was thinking more of the size than the weight. For portability that's almost as much of an issue. As for the 8" speaker, it's a really a function of which speaker you use. The Raezer's Edge NY8 (I believe with an Eminence Beta 8A) works great for jazz. It's a very high wattage speaker with that ability to get quite loud without breaking up. I had the same speaker in an ear candy cab and it did very well. Given that the real prize here is portability, I think it would be useful to give reduced size as much thought as reduced weight.

BTW, we're considering a 4 month road trip to Mexico next fall and I've wondering how to drag along a small amp in a very small car so my thoughts are not at all theoretical.

Jim, I have appreciated your posts and this one makes a lot of sense. A good 8-incher inside 10" pipe might well work - for some but not for others. There's such a variety of volumes and tones under "jazz guitar" anyway. We'll look into this. A 1.5 man enterprise can't have an endlessly long or fat R&D pipeline, however.