1952 Gibson ES-125

[omphalopsychos]

I just ordered this guitar after coveting laminate vintage p90-equipped archtops for some time. The holiday sale was too good to pass up, so I figured I would order it and risk, at most, having to ship it back, even though I haven't had a chance to play this specific guitar (I live in California, though I grew up in Chicago). Have any of the Chicago-based members had a chance to check it out in person? I'd like to know if anyone has any prior thoughts on this guitar or what I should look for when it arrives. It's my first vintage purchase, so I'd love any input from you folks. I know it's not 100% original and has some wear, but I'm not as concerned about cosmetics or resale.

I'll be sure to post pictures and sound clips when it gets here.

[Little Jay]

Unless it has some serious flaw that they didn't disclose you can't go wrong with an ES-125! I even played one with a seriously collapsed top that still played well and sounded great.....

Going by the pictures of CME that one looks great (structurally intact) with serious mojo. The neck lost most of the finish, which is a sign it's been played a lot and that's good.

I think you will have a great guitar!

[mad dog]

I'm looking for one of these right now, have drooled over that particular ES-125 several times. Good luck with it. Can't wait to hear clips!
MD

[rabbit]

Original pickup, very good!

Congratulations & enjoy.

[pants]

CME is in my experience a pretty honest operation, and a 125 is a solid box. Mine has seen some "love" over the ages, neck worn naked and such. It's not really a "collectors" guitar to begin with but the sound and feel are great. Biggest issue with my particular specimen is that the neck has a bit of a "hump" on the bass side where it rests on the body. It means setting the bridge pretty high on the bass side and not quite ideal action on the low end. I could probably have the frets filed a bit to compensate. It's on the list of things to look into, but not a deal breaker by any means.

[omphalopsychos]

Thank you all for your reassurance. Pants, thanks for the tip; I'll do a thorough inspection on the neck and frets. I've been to CME a few times and have always had a great experience. Now I just hope it arrives safely and quickly.

[mr. beaumont]

Generally what you can expect from CME is a higher price than a lot of retailers, but a sound vintage instrument. I've never picked up a guitar there that had major "buyer beware" issues. My guess is you're gonna dig it.

[vinnyv1k]

CME is a class act. If you don't like it you won't be out a dime. They do a stellar pack job and setup also.

[rhoadsscholar]

Nice. Wouldn't hesitate to buy from come. Great return policy and always willing to haggle

[EllenGtrGrl]

Oooh! Very noice! You can't go wrong with an ES-125 IMO. Congrats!

[omphalopsychos]

Well I have good news. The guitar arrived yesterday and I opened it today. The first and obvious thought is wow this guitar sounds amazing. The intonation is fine, the frets (probably refretted) are all in great condition and there are no dead spots anywhere. The tuners work, etc. However, the guitar has three noticeable faults, and I'd like the opinion of other forum members regarding these. I got this guitar during their holiday sale for $1100, so keep that in mind (as I have) while evaluating these faults.


1.) There is a loose piece of wiring that rattles significantly when I play certain notes. This seems so basic that I am actually surpised CME didn't stabilize it during setup before sending the guitar. I suppose I can ask CME to reimburse tech expense to fix this, which shouldn't be much.

2.) The repaired crack they mentioned on the side of the guitar is actually pretty massive. Since it's an electric, and it's on the side rather than the top or the neck, I can let that slide. But what are other people's opinions on this?

3.) Now here's what I am most concerned about. They mentioned the top has flattened over the ages, but I'm worried that the sag in the top under the bridge may not be stable (though I have no idea how to verify this). Any thoughts from others? As it is, the action is fine and the intonation is great, but the saddle is extended pretty high off the top.

I'm attaching some images for reference.

[pants]

1.) Does it sound like it might be from the pickup casing? (The rattle) I had a significant buzz that was fixed by tightening down the dogear cover screws.

2.) it's unfortunate that the crack was larger than you expected. It can be hard to photograph those things to the proper degree, but IMO all damage and repairs should be thoroughly documented with measurements and whatnot. For what it's worth a repaired crack especially in the side on an electric really wouldn't bother me too much.

3. I'd get a mirror in there and try to take a look at the bracing. There was another guy on here who had a bad experience with broken bracing. My 125 has the bridge extended pretty high up and I was worried about this but I think it's more of an issue of compensating for a hump in the fretboard on top of the guitar.

[omphalopsychos]

Thanks for the reply.

1.) It's definitely the wiring. I tested by pressing my finger and was able to eliminate the buzzing by holding one of the wires in place.

2.) My thoughts as well.

3.) I've already left for work, but I'll see about trying to photograph the bracing somehow this evening.

[Jabberwocky]

That's a pretty massive crack in the rim. Although it won't hurt the functionality of the guitar as it looks like a solid repair, it does hurt its value. An ES-125 without a massive repaired crack in the rim has a value of about $1250 to $1350. I have seen ones sell for $1100. The ES-125 is not highly collectible although it is a wonderful sounding laminated 16" archtop.

My suggestion is to ask CME for a rebate on its transacted price for you to keep it. My own wildeyed Jabberwhacked valuation of your ES-125 is closer to $700.

If I recall, Little Jay's ES-125 has no tone-bars. He installed a soundpost to hold up the top and it sounds and plays fine. If the arched top sags a soundpost may fix it.

IMHO and Estimation.

[omphalopsychos]

Thanks for your thoughts. The guitar condition was labeled 'Very Good' on Reverb, which I find hard to justify given the condition. In my opinion the crack would put it in just 'Good' condition, and the sag might mean it's 'Fair' condition, since it's a potential functional issue. I just emailed CME with my thoughts and requested a rebate. Depending on their response this might go back. Regardless of the outcome, this has a valuable learning experience. I learned that I need a vintage laminate Gibson with a p90 and that I may need to be patient to find one in satisfactory condition.

[Jabberwocky]

The ES-125 comes up for sale in varying condition often. Be patient and keep looking.

By the way, you may wish to expand your search to include the 1950s ES-130/ES-135 which is the slightly better appointed version of the ES-125. Or you could also look at the 50s ES-135 as the 16" version of the 50s 17" ES-150. I am not necessarily recommending this one; more as an example of what it looks like:

Rare Vintage 1950's Gibson ES-130 / ES-135 Hollow Body | Reverb

[omphalopsychos]

I just got off the phone with CME. They told me that they sold it at very close to cost, so they can't offer enough of a rebate to take care of the tech/luthier costs, so they sent me a prepaid return label to ship it back. You were all correct regarding this store - the customer service has been tremendous.

Hopefully my patience pays off. I think at $1100 it was still a decent deal. I have seen stores in Manhattan asking $2400 for these, and at that price, I may as well look for an ES 300--which, now, I might.

[Little Jay]

If the tone-bars are intact the top shouldn't sag... I think (but can't say for sure). So if the top has sunk I suspect a cracked or unglued tone bar. If that is the case, it should definitely have been disclosed by the seller, since a repair can be costly.

Jabberwocky is right, my ES-125 has NO tonebars anymore. Top might have sunk a little before I got it but it doesn't show and the bridge is actually still very low. I have put a sound post more than a year ago and it seems completely stable (and sounds and plays superb!). I have never had to raise the bridge since, so yeah a sound post seems an effective remedy against a sinking top (if it was at all).

So definitely check the tone bars with a light and a mirror. If they are broken or unglued it can be repaired at a cost. If you accept that is completely up to you. $1,100 is a very low price here in the Netherlands and I would gladly buy an ES-125 for that money in the condition yours is in, even with tonebars that need to be repaired.

But if you can get a better one for that money where you live then you probably should. Or try to get a discount or compensation for a repair from the seller.

[omphalopsychos]

$1,100 is a very low price here in the Netherlands and I would gladly buy an ES-125 for that money in the condition yours is in, even with tonebars that need to be repaired.

How much does a tonebar repair cost? In the US, you can find an es 125 in excellent condition for around $1800 right now (the current price is pretty high). Yes, that's $700 more than I paid, but in the long run it's not a lot to pay for the satisfaction of owning something in great condition with no structural issues.

[pants]

Could always go for this one. Vintage 1950s Gibson ES-125
Vintage 1950s Gibson ES-125 | Reverb
What even happened to that thing?

[omphalopsychos]

I saw that one too, but it has a replacement pickup and that body fracture is gnarly. Not something I would consider. This one seems more reasonable:

Black Friday Special Price! Gibson ES-125 1957 Sunburst | Reverb

[pants]

Not sure what your status is at this point, but I came across this guy on Reverb today. (No affiliation). Priced right and seller seems to be making a real honest effort to document wear. Vintage Circa 1959 Gibson ES-125 Archtop Electric Guitar Sunburst w/OHSC Needs Nothing!
Vintage Circa 1959 Gibson ES-125 Archtop Electric Guitar | Reverb.
There was also a mint-looking one going for $2600, but that seems quite high, regardless of condition.

[omphalopsychos]

Not sure what your status is at this point, but I came across this guy on Reverb today. (No affiliation). Priced right and seller seems to be making a real honest effort to document wear. Vintage Circa 1959 Gibson ES-125 Archtop Electric Guitar Sunburst w/OHSC Needs Nothing!
Vintage Circa 1959 Gibson ES-125 Archtop Electric Guitar | Reverb.
There was also a mint-looking one going for $2600, but that seems quite high, regardless of condition.

Thanks for the heads up! For now I've discontinued my search for a 125, but I may have something interesting to share in the near future.

[feral guitar]

you say you got great customer service but isn't the fact that they misrepresented the guitar (the very good rating) contrary to that?

[icr]

That is about what $1100 gets you from a dealer. How does it sound and play.