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I have decided to restore my 1963 ES-175D to stock. When I got it, three parts were non original:
1. The case (I have since acquired the proper case from fellow formite Hammertone)
2. The Bridge (It came with a 70's TOM, I sourced a 60's wood bridge from EBay)
3. The Bridge PUP (It came with a 70's Gibson Humbucker. I sourced a pre T-Top patent sticker PUP from EBay)
Here is my question; the original neck PUP had the cover changed to chrome when the replacement bridge PUP was installed years ago and the replacement Bridge PUP I obtained came without a cover. So I need two nickel covers. I have three choices:
A. Find a set of original covers (this will probably cost $500-600. Pretty crazy)
B. Buy the current Gibson nickel covers (this will cost about $60)
or C. Buy a set of Throbak covers (These are made to exact original specs and are plated at the Kalamazoo shop that plated the original 50's and early 60's covers. These will cost about $150 for the pair).
The issues affecting my decision are tone and value of the instrument. Other than having been refretted, the instrument will be bone stock.
Which of those three choices (or is there a choice that I am not considering that you would consider) would you choose and why?
All responses are appreciated.
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12-04-2016 05:32 PM
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SS, if the condition of the guitar is not mint, then new covers will look odd for a while.
It will take about 3 years for the new covers to start to relic so it really depends on when you plan on selling the guitar.
There is nothing like a good ole 175.
Joe D
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I'm not much for fooling around with parts, as anything more complicated than adjusting pickups or changing strings fills me with existential dread, but from your stated options, I might go with the buck-fifty option, which carries the most "authenticity" factor for potential resale. A sort of middle ground position. Though the current Gibson covers would be genuine, so there's that.
Best of luck for your eventual decision.
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Buy the new nickel covers and relic them yourself.
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C. and be done with it. It will look correct no muss no fuss. $90 more ?
You are not a starving musician. Spend more time playing. You are pushing 60.
If you are looking to off it even a better reason to go with C.
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The guitar is pretty cherry. Amazing shape for its age actually, so reliced covers are not needed. I like the guitar quite a bit, but I do not want to spend more than I have to. I have no problem with the extra money for the Throbaks, but wonder if spending even more for genuine vintage covers will pay off in the long run. I do want to have nickel covers to match the tailpiece. (Chrome covers with a nickel tailpiece looks odd to me even considering that being a Harley guy, I love chrome).
If anyone on this forum has a pair of genuine vintage Gibson nickel humbucker covers that they would be willing to sell me, let me know!
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Get the originals, you will save mental time/energy and whoever will pay top dollar for the instrument will probably not mind the extra $500 price for full originality ! My guess is you are targeting vintage collectors at this stage many of whom care less about sound and more about bragging rights.
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why even mess with it?
You bought it for X dollars. It is still worth about X dollars.
Somebody in the guitar's past did a couple of things . . . maybe no big deal.
My take is that after a certain amount of time, those old changes gain some authenticity too.
Like orange shag carpet. Or an older hotrod with Cragar 5 spokes . . .
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Gibson Gear Humbucker Cover Neck Position Nickel | Reverb
bro, these are nickel.
JD
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JD for the win!
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JD,
Originally Posted by Max405
Gibson makes them in two sizes, vintage and modern (the one you linked me to is the modern size). Both sizes are available in gold, chrome or nickel.
here is the rub; back in the day (late 50's through early 60's) the metal was a bit thinner and the plater did not do a copper plate as part of the plating process. On the various gear forums one will find guitarists who swear that the thicker metal and the extra copper plating makes a negative difference in tone (hence the market for the throbaks, who copy the original design to the letter). Gibson does not seem to do their retro stuff to the letter. I have heard that their new bumblebee caps sound nothing like the real ones from back in the day.
When it comes to tone, we guitarists are the most anal folks on the planet.
I will bet you have learned more from this thread than you wanted to.
Choices, choices....
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If I bought a 50's house with 70's shag carpet, the shag carpet would be in the local landfill within days. Just sayin' Originally Posted by Longways to Go
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JD may be a winner, but he swung and missed on this one.... Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
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That is my dilemma. The Throbaks will give me the look and the tone, but should I ever sell, I (being the ridiculously ethical guy that I am) would disclose that the pickup covers are not stock. I wonder if the extra 350-450 for the real thing would return that much or more upon sale. Vintage collectors are concerned with things being all vintage and all Gibson (or Fender or Martin). Originally Posted by medblues
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Originally Posted by Stringswinger
I am not a collector but if I were buying it I wouldn't mind paying $350 (5-10% of the total price ) more for original covers because I would be concerned about my resale value. Conversely, buyers could try to deduct more than $350 from the price because they have to have the original covers found and installed after buying the guitar.
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Rob, That video hurt me... Originally Posted by rob taft
JD
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Yes I have learned a lot. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
JD,
Gibson makes them in two sizes, vintage and modern (the one you linked me to is the modern size). Both sizes are available in gold, chrome or nickel.
here is the rub; back in the day (late 50's through early 60's) the metal was a bit thinner and the plater did not do a copper plate as part of the plating process. On the various gear forums one will find guitarists who swear that the thicker metal and the extra copper plating makes a negative difference in tone (hence the market for the throbaks, who copy the original design to the letter). Gibson does not seem to do their retro stuff to the letter. I have heard that their new bumblebee caps sound nothing like the real ones from back in the day.
When it comes to tone, we guitarists are the most anal folks on the planet.
I will bet you have learned more from this thread than you wanted to.
Choices, choices....
IF you get yourself the right covers, or you just want to properly re-plate the ones you have, You can call:
Advanced Plating
Speak to Frank. They do a lot of Gibson work. They are down in Nashville. Frank is as nice a guy as you will ever deal with. He will know exactly what to do for you.
1-800-588-6686
I love these kinds of projects. Its like hunting. There is a thrill to the process that gets you going.
JD
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Once the original covers were removed and the original factory solder holding them on also removed it will never be original again. No matter what you decide it will not be original again. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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Rob, great post. Originally Posted by rob taft
That video really brought home for me that I don't relics generally. I don't want the look that guy achieved. My guitars get relic-ed the old fashioned way: One day at a time, one embarrassing clunk at a time.
StringSwinger, you've got great pickups. Nobody -- including you -- is going to 'hear' the covers once the band kicks in. Triple so at 'jazz volume.' Just put your nickel covers on, spill some beer and play. It'll come.
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Go over to MyLesPaul and ask around in their Vintage/Reissue subforum. They'll have the answer to your question, and someone will have the covers you're looking for. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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I vote current nickel covers at $60
Nickel dulls / ages relatively fast noone will know in 2-3 years time
And if you ever sell , just mention (honestly) that the pu's are correct just with newer covers. You ll get a bit less , but that would probably be the same amount , as that you are invest lesser right now (is this a correct sentence -
My 57 ES175 has first year PAFs but replaced plastic rings and knobs. Thats no big deal imo. I am definately not going to invest 100s or 1000s of dollars for correct plastic. Let the Les Paul guys have it, if they think it makes their conversions sustain better
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Option B, and play it a lot...
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Heck, I'd give him more for it because he changed the Pickup covers and I didn't have too..
JD
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Sam, I agree with you. I'm also not a fan of relics in general. One thing that has always struck me as humorous about "relic" guitars is what does one do when you go to sell it i.e. Ques: What is the condition? Ans: Mint?? As others have suggested, I would go with stock covers and let them age in. Originally Posted by Sam Sherry
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