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That's really kind and helpful of you, FrankLearns.
Thanks, everybody.
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11-13-2016 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by medblues
Yes, thanks for setting up these comparisons! I've also been thinking a lot about getting a compressor pedal recently. Anyone considered the Mini Ego Compressor by Wampler? It's only been out for a couple of weeks, but it looks like a nice compressor with a small footprint.
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Do any jazzers use comp pedals? Tbh I've never really considered one.
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By definition a compressor will limit your dynamic range. Seems to me that at best it would be a crutch and at worse a hindrance.
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I started thinking about it in the context of recording organ backing tracks using Electro-Harmonix pedals (B9 and Key9 etc) and increasing the sustain of an amplified archtop (again for backing track recording). Then I got obsessed and now I have three pedals on their way :-)) GAS is a bitch ! Originally Posted by christianm77
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Soul & reggae - considering a Wah-Wah, tooI'm definitely curious about its application to music, but I have in mind styles other than standards.
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I already have that one. ovnilab.com says "...The compression action is smooth and typical of this family of comp. It is best suited to giving you more evenness and sustain, and helping you pop in the mix, and it makes a great boost. It's really not for peak limiting. The noise level is also comparable to the other boutique Ross types, reasonably quiet, though they do amplify existing noise from your signal chain more than some other types of comp circuit. Originally Posted by destinytot
The contruction quality is quite good. It runs off standard Boss-type 9V DC, and surprisingly it even has room for a battery in the tiny box! The footswitch is "true bypass".
Overall this pedal is good, not amazing; there are other pedals I recommend much more highly for tone, control, versatility, and so forth. But if you want something really tiny, this one is currently the best buy in that size, that you can find in stores, for a clean basic sound."
There are 2 youtube clips for clean sounds with this pedal, all the rest is dirty sounds and rock style. But might give you a vague idea. What turned me off this pedal after I got it is there are mini switches inside the pedal I would have preferred to have outside.
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Yeah it's the thing for funk guitar as well right? Originally Posted by destinytot
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Looking at a Vox V847 Wah, too. Originally Posted by christianm77
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Very helpful. Thanks, k. Originally Posted by citizenk74
Frank - on your recorded samples I think the Boss supplied a little more "squeeze" or transient smoothing than the others, followed closely by the Mooer, though as stated they are all very close and any perceived differences may be due to nearly imperceptible difference in the settings; i.e. "10 o'clock" +/- 3 or 4 "seconds". In any case, a highly interesting comparison. Thanks!
Destinytot - I think many would agree that with compression, the sweet spot settings may prove elusive, but are well worth the chase. When I use a compressor, it is usually set to act as a peak limiter, to correct my technical deficiencies; or to introduce a tube-like "give" in a solid-state amp or a powerful, clean tube amp at a low volume. The end dictates the means. Good luck!
"Tube-like give" - I think I get this from the Joyo American Sound which I use all the time.
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if you haven't yet, give your xotic (or any pedal, compressor or otherwise) a try at 18v.
ps- double check that your pedal can handle 18v before you try it. or you will start a localized fire within your pedal. but its generally worth it.
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I now have the Xotic SP, Empress Compressor and Wampler Ego. Mad Professor Forest Green arrived broken. Okka Coca is still on its way.
Still playing with them. I tried to get more sustain from my Hofner but the difference was insignificant because the decay was too fast on the input.
I realized that learning to use a compressor optimally will require much experimentation and learning. For instance, the concept of threshold is easy to understand but many pedals don't even have a setting for it (Empress does).
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Ordering an Xotic SP + Morley M2 wah/volume next week.
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I found this extremely helpful, and it's helped me understand the ovnilab reviews:
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I always figured that compression would help making picking easier by "evening out" inconsistencies in dynamics caused by uneven stroke power. Maybe i'm wrong with this belief, but this would be the only reason i'd use a compressor in a live setting as i don't think it improves the pure quality of the sound. So if someone could tell me if i'm right ..... thanks!
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That's how I use it! Originally Posted by JazzNote
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I ask myself, "What would Grant Green do?" Rudy Van Gelder is said to have recorded without compression, and I speculate that Grant Green wouldn't use it - live or in the studio. Originally Posted by JazzNote
However, I have a fair amount of Blue Note recordings on both vinyl and CD, and I'm beginning to suspect that - with notable exceptions - there may be compression on both formats among copies I own.
If this is so, I doubt whether the reasons have anything to do with the artists. And I doubt whether the artists would approve. Moreover, I suspect 'jazz' may end once compromise on sound begins.
On the other hand, I ask myself, "What would George Benson do?" And I speculate that although he only needs his hands to make his guitar 'sing', he's probably perfectly happy for his sound to be processed for imaging and placement in a well-crafted sound stage. I'd be surprised if that processing didn't involve compression.
Whether or not one considers George Benson's shows 'jazz' is neither here nor there, because they have - in common with the classic Blue Note sound - 'groove'. I believe that 'groove' needs to be both live and loud.
Personally, I prefer gentle music (I try to play according to my temperament). This is not incompatible with 'groove', and I also see a place for compression there. Furthermore, under the right circumstances, I can contemplate playing loud music with a 'groove' - and using compression. Also, I'm eager to try single-note lines with compression and a wah pedal.
For what I think of as 'jazz', I'm firmly against compressors (on principle) and in favour of 'right' technique.
That said, I'm more in favour of keeping it fun.
Besides, I'm probably be completely wrong in my prejudiced view; having read dozens of interesting and informative reviews on the ovnilab site, it's obvious that there's variety among pedals. (I wonder whether the fact that the reviewer plays bass has any implications for guitarists reading the reviews?)
I must say the Mooer Yellow sounds interesting.
Ovnilab says: "Mooer Yellow: This is a micro-sized pedal from China, meant to imitate the Diamond CPR-1. Like the Diamond it is an optical circuit, has a tilting EQ, and is painted yellow.
The action is smooth and even, with no squishy effects. It has an inherently low ratio, so it is meant for general smoothing rather than peak limiting. Turning up the Comp knob boosts your signal over a fixed threshold. The noise level is very low at most settings. The EQ is just like the one in the Diamond: centered around 900 Hz, with a shallow arching slope on either side of that point, making it good for broad natural-sounding tonal changes.
The tone, unfortunately, is not close to the Diamond. It is more congested, and lacking in richness or shine. Whenever I played and heard a tone that sounded especially good, I looked down to note the setting and realized the pedal was switched off. To be clear though, the tone really isn't terrible--in fact it's decent for the price. But since it is supposedly a clone of the Diamond, I have to say it falls far short of that tonal quality.
It doesn't lose any highs, but the low end gets rolled off pretty noticeably. At some settings the lows are no worse than with any other typical guitar comp, but at others the cut is significant. The setting of the Comp knob also affects the amount of lows, as the whole signal gets boosted up across the threshold; so a high Comp setting will bring more of the lows back, but by the same token your dynamics are well smashed at that point. The setting closest to "flat", with the strongest low end, is with both Comp and EQ knobs at 2:00.
It runs on standard Boss-type 9V DC. The housing is tiny, about 40mm x 93mm, and the construction quality is decent for the price. The footswitch is "true bypass".
Price in USD: new $90, used it will probably be half that." (My local music shop sells it for 55 euros.)
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I am in the pro comp camp but will not even entertain an argument over anything tone-related because it's personal and if you don't want comp, more power to you.
Just think about two things about those that don't use a compressor: their amp (most likely) compresses and 99.9% of recorded music is compressed at some stage. Van Gelder may or may not have used compression but he used a 5e3 to record guitars and that amp/speaker compresses, not like he used a twin in a low setting or a modern solid state or acoustic amp or any amp with a ton of headroom. Pretty sure that when any jazz record is mastered compression is going to happen at the mix level.
IME you can keep the dynamics you want with comp and you can't reproduce comp with technique. It doesn't despike in the sense that it just makes each note even (that is doable via technique) it flattens the actual sound wave at the beginning, so the notes sound even but the actual shape of the sound wave is changed.
To me rather than compressor yes or no is what flavor of compression do you want to use, where in the chain and whether it's "always on" or for specific purposes.
In my case after a lot of research and testing (MXR, Ross, BYOC Ross, Orange Sq, Boss, Xotic, option etc) I settled on Maxon's CP101. I actually sold it and bought it back.
I use it both for Jazz and modern worship, which is the other genre I regularly play. It's very subtle 1:4 and I have it at 8 o'clock but makes a big difference. Not only evens out spikes but also adds sustain (perceived effect of despiking). I don't use Reverb, I use analog delay instead and I like to compress a little before it hits the delay because if not the amp will compress the delay (or Reverb) and over emphasize the ambiance vs dry signal.
Imho there is a compressor out there for everybody, but like everything it takes time to figure it out. It may not be worth to you. For Jazz, I would start with optical compressors, the diamond is great and its clones should do it.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkLast edited by blille; 12-04-2016 at 12:31 PM.
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This is great - thanks! Originally Posted by blille
On the subject of tone, I'd love to try one of these and a wah...
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I sent the Wampler Ego back, Empress was more versatile and was the same quality. Xotic SP might stay due to small size and simplicity. I did not spend enough time with Okko Coca but if there is a fan here who wants it I will not hesitate to sell :-)
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DT,
Thanks for taking us on your decision-making journey for whether or not to use compressors. I agree with your final thoughts.
There were some great contributions on this thread, especially FrankLearns going through all the trouble to post examples and share his experiences.
Also, the video was very informative. I can see I was not using my old Boss Compressor properly enough to even give myself a chance. I am going to pull it out again and hope the batteries have not leaked and destroyed the inside. If not, then I will give it another chance, but only for those songs that I want to have an evenness of tone.
I love the rawness of dynamics in my Jazz and Blues. I view the variances in volume as being kind of like when a voice unexpectedly soars or cracks. And, I like it.
Finally, I must say that I know I have some hearing loss and it must have affected my hearing of the various videos because the differences between settings, and also when the compressor was on or off, was difficult at times for me to detect.
Cheers to you, Amigo.
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You can play Herbie Hancock's chameleon line without a keyboard player Originally Posted by destinytot
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So a hypothetical advanced question for the pros:
The Empress Compressor has a side chain. Empress ParaEQ can supposedly work as a notch filter. Can I apply compression only on the feedback causing frequency connecting these pedals with the side chain ? That would be a nice jazz application of compression since many of our guitars like to feedback.
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