Replacement neck thoughts

[Joelhas10fingers]

I'm looking at replacing a neck on my parts guitar, and my mind is swimming in possibilities. I'm hoping to get some input to narrow my options. I currently have a chambered jazz master body from Warmoth with a tele bridge, humbucker in the neck and tele single coil in the bridge. The current neck is an unfinished rosewood neck with rosewood fingerboard that I've had for almost twenty years. It's very pretty but has a couple things that make me consider a new neck.

First concern is that bending notes is a bit of a strain. I play a lot of jazz, and some blues and rock. I'm not bending like crazy, but when I do, it's more work than I like. I suspect it has to with the radius. The tone of the guitar is fairly dark and I think I'd like more presence.

I've been playing on the Warmoth site and think a roasted maple neck with rosewood fingerboard, 6105 frets and 10" to 16". I think this could give me a bit more brightness, easier action and bending. Am I on track or am I getting myself a metal guitar?

[Greentone]

I don't know if it is actually easier to bend with a flatter radiused neck, but it IS easier to bend without fretting out with a flatter radiused neck. For years, I used old 7-1/4" radius neck Fenders and never had a problem bending strings from here to next Sunday. Some folks would rightly contend that a flatter neck would keep the notes from "fretting out." The bent notes would sound longer in the bend. This is true. A perfectly flat neck would greatly enhance this, but would feel like crap when you play, otherwise. Imagine playing rock and roll on a classical guitar neck and you will know what I mean.

FWIW, guys like Scofield seem to be moving back to old-style Fenders with 7-1/4" radius necks.

[Joelhas10fingers]

I don't know if it is actually easier to bend with a flatter radiused neck, but it IS easier to bend without fretting out with a flatter radiused neck. For years, I used old 7-1/4" radius neck Fenders and never had a problem bending strings from here to next Sunday. Some folks would rightly contend that a flatter neck would keep the notes from "fretting out." The bent notes would sound longer in the bend. This is true. A perfectly flat neck would greatly enhance this, but would feel like crap when you play, otherwise. Imagine playing rock and roll on a classical guitar neck and you will know what I mean.

FWIW, guys like Scofield seem to be moving back to old-style Fenders with 7-1/4" radius necks.

Thanks for the reply. What's your experience with the role fret size plays with bending, tone,etc.? I've never been able to make sense of the difficulty bending notes with this guitar. The frets on the Warmoth neck are about 1/8th inch wide, while my tele's are 1/16th inch width, and it's pretty simple to bend on the Fender.


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[Greentone]

I never noticed. My 60s Fenders had skinny frets. My 70s Gibsons had big fat frets. They were all easy to bend. Easiest was my 335. I think it was the shorter Gibson scale.

[Greentone]

Bending was hard on my fret less wonder frets on a 60s SG Custom.

[lammie200]

I just received a Musikraft 9.5-12 compound radius Tele neck with 6100 stainless steel frets for a Tele that I am assembling. I just test strung it a couple of nights ago to check the neck angles. Bright sounding but in a good way. I really like the fret size. I think that I may have hit a homerun with this one. When I have a bit more time I will do the final assembly.

[Matt Cushman]

Stevie Ray Vaughan was known for bending strings and he used a fingerboard that started out as a 7 1/4" radius and ended up being about a 9.5" or even 12". His fret preference was for the tallest his tech could fit in. The 6100s are a big fret and are fitted on Fenders Yngwie Malmsteem signature Strat.

[nopedals]

Years ago I ordered my "fender neck" which has been on a number of guitars. It was a USACG, and they let me spec everything. I ended up with a 1 23/32 inch nut (midway between standard Gibson 1 11/16 and 1 3/4), 25" (Johnny Smith) scale, fatback profile without a lot of taper (it is a handful), and their proprietary "fall away" compound radius. It is the best neck I have ever played for grabbing stretchy chords way up the neck, and does not fret out. I can't recall the frets I spec'd, but they would not have been picked for string bending.

[John A.]

Thanks for the reply. What's your experience with the role fret size plays with bending, tone,etc.? I've never been able to make sense of the difficulty bending notes with this guitar. The frets on the Warmoth neck are about 1/8th inch wide, while my tele's are 1/16th inch width, and it's pretty simple to bend on the Fender.


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I have medium jumbo frets and a 9.5" radius on my Strat, and I find it easier to bend on it than vintage-spec Fenders with smaller radii and frets. But fret condition plays a big role as well IME -- e.g, a bigger fret that is worn flat could be harder to bend on than a smaller, but newer and properly crowned fret. Maybe the things you're not liking with your current neck could be addressed with a fret-dress or r-fret? Fret-dressing often cures many ills; a re-fret often involves sanding (and thus slightly flattening) the fretboard. I'm not sure how that compares to the cost of a whole new neck, though.

John

[Joelhas10fingers]

I have medium jumbo frets and a 9.5" radius on my Strat, and I find it easier to bend on it than vintage-spec Fenders with smaller radii and frets. But fret condition plays a big role as well IME -- e.g, a bigger fret that is worn flat could be harder to bend on than a smaller, but newer and properly crowned fret. Maybe the things you're not liking with your current neck could be addressed with a fret-dress or r-fret? Fret-dressing often cures many ills; a re-fret often involves sanding (and thus slightly flattening) the fretboard. I'm not sure how that compares to the cost of a whole new neck, though.

John

Thanks John. Sound advice.
I've had similar thoughts about a re-fret. From what I've seen online, a re-fret will run about 300, which would also buy a new neck. Weighing my options.


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[BigToe]

[QUOTE=Joelhas10fingers;684340]

First concern is that bending notes is a bit of a strain. I play a lot of jazz, and some blues and rock. I'm not bending like crazy, but when I do, it's more work than I like. I suspect it has to with the radius. The tone of the guitar is fairly dark and I think I'd like more presence.
QUOTE]

what gauge strings are you using and what scale length is the guitar?

also, are you referring to your amplified tone being too dark? I think there are more effective ways to change that than switching out the neck - although it sounds like you're not happy with the current neck for other reasons as well...

[Joelhas10fingers]

You're right to wonder about string gauge. I play 11's, mainly because I like the full tone, but other guitars with 11's play more easily. Scale length is 25.5".
As far as the darkness goes, I think that largely comes from the rosewood/rosewood neck. I'd like it a bit brighter, even acoustically. Additionally, it's always had a very subtle "phase shifty" sound on the high e and b strings, that didn't go away with a new nut, neck adjustments or removing the string trees.
Is it correct to say that a rosewood/rosewood neck would give a dark tone?
Would a maple/rosewood likely yield a brighter sound?
Thanks for weighing in!


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[Joelhas10fingers]

This is the guitar I've been writing about


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[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

If you are buying a new neck, consider stainless steel frets. Besides being harder wearing, they can be finished to a super smooth finish, which aids in string bending.

[wagz]

This is precisely the thing that I have been contemplating, lately. I've been looking @ getting USACG to build a neck for me to replace what is on my strat. I'm going to try to sell my tele thinline to bankroll this endeavor, I think. I also want 6100SS frets and something like a 10-16" compound radius and a quartersawn roasted maple neck w/ an Ebony/African Blackwood finger board. That should give me plenty of brightness, considering maple, the hardness of those woods on the fingerboard, ans the SS frets.

I just don't know whether a quarter sawn AND roasted neck would actually be more stable than just a quarter sawn neck or just a roasted maple neck.

The radius that you are looking at should aid bending on the highest frets.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Big frets will certainly aid bending -- you can get your fingers aside the string more comfortably, giving your first knuckle better leverage. Be careful with chords, though -- taller frets make it easier to pull notes sharp, which becomes noticeable when playing chords.

Also, I see that like myself, you favor .011s. But for my Fender-scale instruments, I always strung them with .010s, because that extra 3/4" imparts a different tension. Perhaps you could try that before spending a couple hundred on a new neck?

Lastly -- I don't know if a maple neck would sound brighter, but I do think it would help give your notes more attack. To my ears, maple is snappier, rosewood a tad more mushy. For Strats, my favorite is maple topped with rosewood.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Big frets will certainly aid bending -- you can get your fingers aside the string more comfortably, giving your first knuckle better leverage. Be careful with chords, though -- taller frets make it easier to pull notes sharp, which becomes noticeable when playing chords.

I think of sliding as orthogonal to bending. In jazz I do lots of sliding (up and down into notes, up and down out of notes) -- more sliding than bending. Tall frets are like speedbumps when it comes to sliding. I'd suggest something like a medium jumbo as a compromise fret size -- not too tall.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

This is precisely the thing that I have been contemplating, lately. I've been looking @ getting USACG to build a neck for me to replace what is on my strat. I'm going to try to sell my tele thinline to bankroll this endeavor, I think. I also want 6100SS frets and something like a 10-16" compound radius and a quartersawn roasted maple neck w/ an Ebony/African Blackwood finger board. That should give me plenty of brightness, considering maple, the hardness of those woods on the fingerboard, ans the SS frets.

I just don't know whether a quarter sawn AND roasted neck would actually be more stable than just a quarter sawn neck or just a roasted maple neck.

The radius that you are looking at should aid bending on the highest frets.

I've never had stability problems with necks, but then I like them chunky. And climate may play an issue as well.

[Joelhas10fingers]

Thank you. Do you have a particular type of fret you like?


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[wagz]

I've never had stability problems with necks, but then I like them chunky. And climate may play an issue as well.

My strat has the standard Fender C shape and is very stable. I've had it for more than fourteen years. No issues with it. However, I have played some new American Standard Strats that don't feel as solid as the Fender EJ strats (for example), which have thicker quarter sawn necks and feel very stable when you really lay into the guitar. I have recently discovered that I also like fairly chunky necks, too.

[John A.]

Is it correct to say that a rosewood/rosewood neck would give a dark tone?
Would a maple/rosewood likely yield a brighter sound?
Thanks for weighing in!

I'm skeptical that neck material per se makes much difference in tone. For every claim I've seen about one neck's tone properties there's a counterclaim, and neither claim nor counterclaim is supported by well-controlled tests. My direct (but poorly controlled) experience is that you can get two guitars of the same design but different neck materials to sound the same, or different by tweaking other factors. I realize lots of other people have strongly different views, and I wouldn't argue the point further, though. I've never encountered a rosewood/rosewood neck so I can't speak specifically to that. But bear in mind, that you're never changing just one thing; i.e., you're not just changing the material, with all else equal; you're changing the rest of the elements in the neck as well, and there might be differences in fabrication, frets, finishing, dimensions, etc. that make more differences than wood species. So, yes, neck A might leave your guitar sounding different from neck B, but the reasons might never be completely clear. OTOH, the great thing about bolt-ons is that you can perform this experiment yourself relatively easily and inexpensively.

Additionally, it's always had a very subtle "phase shifty" sound on the high e and b strings, that didn't go away with a new nut, neck adjustments or removing the string trees.

That sounds more like an issue of fret condition or "fender neck hump" to me (a rise in neck the in area of the bolts). If I were in your shoes, my first step would be to take the guitar to a good repair person, describe the things that are bothering me, and see what fixes s/he thinks are possible. On my Strat, I've found that a fret grind/polish + good set-up by someone who really knows how to fine-tune the interplay between neck angle, relief and bridge adjustments makes a very noticeable difference.

John

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Thank you. Do you have a particular type of fret you like?

medium jumbo is 6130: here is Warmoth's fret size page Warmoth Custom Guitar Parts - Fret Size

I also like vintage (6230) but then I don't bend much. The one I don't like is 6105, tall and narrow, but it is popular and has its fans.

[lammie200]

I think of sliding as orthogonal to bending. In jazz I do lots of sliding (up and down into notes, up and down out of notes) -- more sliding than bending. Tall frets are like speedbumps when it comes to sliding. I'd suggest something like a medium jumbo as a compromise fret size -- not too tall.

I think that one of the ideas with tall frets is that your touch needs to lighten up. They may not work for you, but that is why I like them.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

I think that one of the ideas with tall frets is that your touch needs to lighten up. They may not work for you, but that is why I like them.

I should work on it, my touch, especially with chords, is medium-to-heavy

[Herbie]

The differences between frets and radius'es are still to be learned for me but sonething I have already learned: the sound of the (especially solid body) guitar is in the neck. Thicker neck sound different fron thin neck.

And the material is meaningful too. I had once a '79 Les Paul Deluxe for a couple a years. Tried different pickups but never reached a sound that would've pleased. The guitar feeled somehow hard and the notes were slippery, kinda greasy. Finally I realized why: it has a maple neck. None of my mahogany necked Les Pauls (about ten during over two decades) has never felt the same.

So new neck is absolutely a new possibility for the guitar. Wood is always a bit random material so even the best specs can surprise You in the end. But worth trying!