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OK, the more I cruise this site the more GAS I get ! LOL
I was giving serious consideration to a GB10 but I keep hearing all these great posts of Joe Pass playing his ES-175. I'm liking his sound on Night and Day from Blues For Fred and yes Six String Santa, as well as various others.
So….I'm not sure I can spring for a Gibson although my total budget would be $2K to my door if need be, but no more unless I sell a LOT more "stuff"...
I've seen an Epiphone ES-175 Limited Edition Custom Shop, Epi ES-175 Premium, Epi ES175 older version, I believe a Gibson ES 175 Memphis, Gibson ES-165 (how close to a 175?).
I've also seen some good reviews of Heritage H575, Peerless Sunset, Peerless Cremona, Epi Joe Pass Emperor II (what albums does he use it on?) and a few others but haven't seen enough videos to comment.
OK….so all you Joe Pass guru's……..What, in your opinion, should I be looking at. I'm in the DFW, TX area…..not a lot to choose from so this will most likely be an internet purchase unless something pops up.
Thanks….I'm really liking this site. It's informative, helpful and has some great videos.
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07-18-2016 04:54 PM
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You can find a $2K ES-175. It will be a 80s guitar. There is nothing wrong with that. If you go to a guitar show (like the Philadelphia vintage guitar show), you will find many people with booths selling guitars from that period. There will be some ES-175s. In fact, I'm pretty sure I know a guy who will be taking one there.
Play some and make an offer.
Another idea: look for a Gibson ES-165 Herb Ellis model. It is the reintroduction of the single-pickup ES-175 by Gibson in the 1980s. The "Herb" sells for less than a guitar that says "ES-175" on it, even though the guitars are the same. You should find several 165 guitars in your price range. They are excellent jazz guitars. Get the one with the set in humbucking pickup.
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There is a difference between the Gibson "VOS" 1959 ES175 and the current model. The VOS is lighter and to my ear sounds different. I have a 1999 ES165 and the VOS ES175 and you'd think they'd be too close to distinguish, but they're not. I have trouble articulating the differences, but here's a clip I made playing a chorus of "Misty" on each, with the identical settings of volume/tone and EQ flat on my Polytone amp.
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Greentone said:
"Play some and make an offer"
I think that's the best advice you can expect.
In my experience the 175 is THE most variable of all the Gibsons I have played.
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I too have a '59 vos 175 and I gotta say, it is hands down the best one I've played. Very light and resonant---an amazing work of art. I once had a real vintage '59 20 years ago and the vos sounds/plays even better than that one did.
Last edited by jbucklin; 07-18-2016 at 06:05 PM.
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A friend of mine in Canada is currently selling his 2001 165 for 2K. He's not shipping but you may be close enough to Toronto for a pick up:
Gibson ES-165 archtop (carved-in pickup)
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Seems like a city the size of Dallas should have a decent Gibson dealer plus a few used 175's to try out somewhere.
+1 on the 165. I'd love one
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I can't believe this beauty hasn't been snatched up yet:
2013 Gibson Custom Shop Single Pickup 1959 ES 175 Natural Vos | eBay
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Nope, I live in Dallas and there's not a single dealer around here where a 175 can be found. GC has pretty much caused almost all of the independently owned music stores to go out of business.
Originally Posted by Longways to Go
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+1 on Greentones advice. A late 70's/early 80's 175 or a first generation 165 (with the set PUP) is a great choice in your price range. Use a Polytone amp (or something similar) and 13 flatwounds and you are on your way to Joe Pass tone (my personal favorite jazz guitar tone). Listen to his tone on the "Intercontinental" album. I do not think jazz guitar tone (or playing) gets any better.
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Some good tips, thanks. I was in Toronto years ago and remember how clean the streets were compared to NYC. A bit of a drive from the DFW area.
Yes, some of the Dallas dealers (GC or Sam Ash) may have a few Gibby's.
That 2013 is nice but juuuuust a bit over my max.
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I'd suggest playing a bunch before pulling the trigger, and not buying sight unseen.
For a while I thought I really needed a 175, given the iconic jazz tones that have come from them (Jim Hall, Joe Pass, etc.). But after playing a bunch, I found that I did not like them at all. The QC in particular was not in accordance with the price tag. Give me a Godin any day.
I'm sure my dream 175 is out there somewhere, but given the huge variability in quality and playing feel that I've experienced, I would never drop that kind of coin without having played the specific instrument.
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Lawson, thanks for posting the video. I liked the 165 better but part of that may be because it sounds like the E & B strings on the 175 may be a bit closer to the fretboard, but the 165 also sounds a bit deeper.
Last edited by Naquat; 07-18-2016 at 06:34 PM.
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Originally Posted by jbucklin
True, they cater to the younger kids who want to be the next Steve Vai. Go to a GC on the weekend if you want a headache. LOL
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I have a '64 Princeton w/Weber spk. I'm thinking of making a back plate so it would be more of a closed cabinet. Still it sounds pretty good and I also have a separate cab with a 12" EV 12M. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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Sorry about that, I didn't notice your address in the initial post. From here in Australia, it looks close enough! Originally Posted by Naquat
Some good tips, thanks. I was in Toronto years ago and remember how clean the streets were compared to NYC. A bit of a drive from the DFW area.
Yes, some of the Dallas dealers (GC or Sam Ash) may have a few Gibby's.
That 2013 is nice but juuuuust a bit over my max.
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Podium Guitars in Mpls has a 165 in your price range.
Used Gibson ES165 Herb Ellis - Used Guitars
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I have a 64 Princeton (non reverb) that used to have a weber speaker (it now has a JBL-D-110) and can speak to that. While a great amp, it is voiced differently than a Polytone and will not deliver the 70's Joe Pass Tone. It will do a pretty good job of giving you a 60's Joe Pass tone, which is still pretty damn good (Think "for Django"). And I still have my Weber speaker... Originally Posted by Naquat
Do not close the back of the cabinet. The tubes will get too hot.
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Amen to that. I've tried a few, some have been exceptional while some others were pretty bad. Originally Posted by GNAPPI
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For 2K I would also suggest a 165 if you want the typical thunking 175 tone, just make sure it is one with the set in pickup like the ones from the '90s. The one provided in the link before is the floater version which might not give you the expected tone.
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I hear you Jehu but I may not have much of a selection locally. The Godin, if I'm not mistaken, also has a 1 3/4" nut and since I don't have large hands I'm partial to 1 11/16".
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Funny, everyone who bought a 175 used and LOVED it was sold by someone who didn't like it :-)
If I can give one more bit of advice? If you find one that grabs your soul DO NOT NIT PICK THE CONDITION unless the price is way out of your league.
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Sounds like the stock market.
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GNAPPI : No I'm not that picky on the condition of used guitars as long as the price is in line with that condition. How they play and sound holds more interest although some finishes can be a turn off.
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I think in current models there is 59 VOS versus VOS versus standard. I am not 100% sure what VOS is, something about making it look old eg non high gloss finish, discoloured binding, supposedly superior timber).
I suspect the big difference in Lawson's guitars is the 59 makeover not necessarily 165 v 175.
When I purchased my 2012 175 VOS it had I think Gibson L5 strings, have been trying to find out/replace. Dam they sounded so great I have not been able to match that sound since they died.
I see you have a Princeton so here is a 2012VOS through a Princeton (with an Eminence Legend)
As you shop around you will find the necks vary considerably. 59 has the thickest, VOS the next, non VOS the least thick.
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