A Good Budget Jazz Guitar

[EllenGtrGrl]

Hi Everybody,

I'm a longtime player (started playing in earnest in 1979). I've done the rock band thing off and on over the years (usually as the lead guitarist), and everyyear, I seem to get dragooned into playing guitar (typically acoustic) in theemployee Xmas band, that plays at the company Xmas party. I love my high gain tones,but I also have a guilty pleasure - when I play clean, it's almost exclusivelybeen jazz (I don't care for twang at all). As I've gotten older, I seem to begravitating very much more towards jazz. With that in mind, I've beencontemplating going guitar-wise, in a more jazz oriented direction (who knows,maybe I'll get back into playing in bands again - this time of the jazzvariety).

I've been playing hollowbodies for some time (since 2008 - LOVE the nicethroaty tone they have), and at the present time, I have a Gretsch CountryClub. It's a nice guitar, but I've been contemplating, going towards somethingwith just a single neck pickup, and preferrably a 17" or even 18"(ala the Super 400) lower bout body size (I've gotten quite spoiled by the17" body size of my Country Club - it's very comfy, for restimg my armover). The thing is, I don't exactly have $3000 plus to spend for one! What doyou guys suggest. I thnk Heritage are cool, but everywhere I look online, theprice just about gives me a heart attack. Ditto for Gibson (despite the factthat I love Gibsons - my main gigging guitar in the 90s, was a 1980 GibsonHoward Roberts Fusion). I guess what I'm saying, is that I'm not a brand snobanymore, so Eastman, Peerless, etc., are fine by me. I'd even consider the nolonger made Gretsch 6040 (though I will admit from long term Gretschexperience, that you really need to try them out [since some of them have thinnecks - ugh!], and you have to be sparing with the treble, since FilterTronscan sound kind of bright).

As I mentioned earlier, I'd prefer a 17" or 18" lower bout for thebody size. My upper price limit is $2000. Cutaways (both Florentine, andVenetian) are fine, but it's not the end of the world for me, if the guitardoesn't have one. Thanks!

[marcwhy]

Hi Ellen, and welcome!!

It sounds like you know your stuff already, and even know brands like Eastman, Heritage, and Peerless. [Won't $2K get a nice used Heritage??] There are a lot of good guitars out there -- what's "wrong" with those you mentioned?? I guess I'd want to know if you're OK buying used, and if you "need" to play it first, vs. buying online or from a lesser-known builder?

There are almost too many options …

Marc

[EllenGtrGrl]

Hi Marc,

If I had it my way, I'd have my grandpa's 1940s era Epiphone Emperor (along with playing jazz guitar in bands, my grandpa was an acoustic guitar luthier [he made me my first guitar when I was 6 years old - unfortunately he got sick from cancer, shortly after making it, and died a year later, so I didn't learn any guitar playing at that time]), by my uncle (Guitar Generation #2 in the family - he went in the Air Force when I was 7, so no guitar lessons from him until I was 15) has it and won't give it up, despite the fact that he says I'm a much better player than he is! Oh well.

I have no issue with buying used. I've bought plenty of wonderfull used guitars. I looked into used Heritages on Reverb.com, and all of the 17 & 18" archtops were typically going for well north of $2500. I agree with you, there are a ton of options out there, but most of them seem to be with a 16" body, have two pickups, and in many cases, are not so good. I'd settle for a two pickup guitar, but it would end up being a Super 400, Heritage Eagle, Heritage Super Kenny Burrell (LOVE his playing), L5, or anyone of the Heritage 17" models, but they all cost more than I can afford - especially when you throw in the fact that due to a severe nickel allergy, and a major allergy to chromium (which is used in stainless steel), nickel hardware is a no-no, ditto for nickel and stainless steel guitar strings, and I have to get any guitars I buy, re-fretted with Jesacar EVO Gold hypoallergenic fretwire (due to the fact that almost all guitars use nickel alloy frets). Re-fretting is not cheap - it's cost me anywhere from $350-$400 per guitar (I've spent over $2000 on re-fret jobs), but it was do that, or quit playing (after playing for 35 plus years), when the whole nickel allergy issue reared up its ugly head in 2014 (my allergy is more immune system related - I don't get the usual rash/finger rot most guitarists get on their hands, instead I wind up with mega skin breakouts everywhere else on my body [it got so bad, I had to get treated by a dematologist - one of my coworkers said I looked like a burn victim!]).

So, having to get guitars re-fretted, puts a damper on guitar acquisitions. No more cheap thrills for me (I can't justify the cost of getting them re-fretted), and no more guitars that run a real high risk of getting flipped (I'd put myself in the poor house, constantly getting guitars re-fretted). It's hard finding hollow bodies to try out, and even harder for me, since I really can't spend serious tryout time playing them unless I'm willing to suffer the consequences of having my dermatitis flare up (which has happened after trying out new guitars). Throw in the fact that I play in the classical style (with my thumb behind the neck), and as a result, prefer necks with some heft to them (they don't have to necessarily be baseball bats - a Medium C or U profile will also do for me ), and not uber skinny (the infamous Gibson Speed neck need not apply - I had a Les Paul Signature in the 80s when I was in college, that had a Speed Neck, and I found playing on it near the nut kind of cramped), and at times, it's a tall order for me to choose a guitar.

So, I'm in a quandry. Like I said, I'd even consider a Gretsch 6040, since my local shop (Cream City) gives me great deals on Gretsches, and I saw a guy playing chord melody stuff on one last year, who got absolutely killer, non-twangy tones out of it. I also have a window of opportunity - my latest Country Club is on layaway at the present time (I put $2200 down on it), and it would be easy to flip the money from that guitar, to say a Gretsch 6040 (if one can be found NOS - they're no longer made), or on a longshot, to a Heritage (the shop is also a Gibson, and a Heritage Dealer - I'm not sure what kind of a deal they could do for me on a Heritage), or a decent, higher end Ibanez (which the shop also carries). I have noi problems with getting darker warm sounds out of guitars, so pickups are not as much of a big deal for me. Guitar necks though, can make or break a deal for me.

[Debora Miano]

well the range of possibilities is huge, you know.
personally, as jazz is already
how to say
not the most exciting genre EHEHEHE
maybe even a guitar with some different personality would do. you own a nice guitar already, love Gretsch! but you see, a good guitar is a good guitar, and doesn't make you a jazz player either.
what makes a jazz guitarist out of you, is practicing for 20 years, every day, whole day if daddy can pay EHEH, scales, arpeggios, and one day you might be able to call yourself and be called jazz guitarist.

[EllenGtrGrl]

well the range of possibilities is huge, you know.
personally, as jazz is already
how to say
not the most exciting genre EHEHEHE
maybe even a guitar with some different personality would do. you own a nice guitar already, love Gretsch! but you see, a good guitar is a good guitar, and doesn't make you a jazz player either.
what makes a jazz guitarist out of you, is practicing for 20 years, every day, whole day if daddy can pay EHEH, scales, arpeggios, and one day you might be able to call yourself and be called jazz guitarist.

Oh I agree. Look at Ed Bickert, and Bill Frissell who play killer jazz, with Telecasters (I happen to have a Telecaster). In retrospect, I may be looking far a change of pace guitar-wise. I can get decent sounding jazz out of my present guitars, but I think I may be missing have something in a Gibson-type archtop, since I played Gibson semi-hollow bodies for a very long time (from 1984, until 2000 [when hard financial times made me sell my Howard Roberts Fusion]). I've had Gretsch hollow bodies since 2008, and as a result, like hollow bodies even more than semi-hollowbodies. It's just that I'm sick of Bigsbys (in 37 years of playing, I've seldom used vibratos, they just aren't my style), and while I could remove the one my Country Club has, there is always the problem of getting a dark enough sound for my taste, out of the FilterTrons. Still, it would be a win-win to swap the layaway on my Country Club, for a G6040 Synchromatic (if one can be found - they are no longer made).

Personally, I could care less about looking the part, and I've never been a big fan of the "this guitar is made for jazz", "this guitar is made for country music", etc. mindset. I played in heavy rock bands, with the "wrong" guitars all the time, semi-hollow bodied guitars, and Telecaster of all things! Any guitar I buy, is used for more than one genre of music.

[jbucklin]

Check out some of the Korean D'Angelicos. I recently bought an EX-SS, replaced the humbuckers with Lollars, put a Tonepros bridge on it and it is one awesome guitar now. The EX-1 might be just what you're looking for. I'll send some links.

[Steve Z]

The new D'Angelicos are great playing instruments well under your $2,000 max budget.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[goldenwave77]

There's an Epiphone Premium on this site right now for a lot less than $2k. I guess the question is whether this sound is sufficiently different from a Gretsch County Club, as they are both electrified laminates.

Maybe you have heart set on a more acoustic type of sound?! Can't quite tell from your post.

[jbucklin]

Check out this demo. He speaks for awhile in some foreign language and starts playing at about 6:53. The best sounding demo I've found so far:

[EllenGtrGrl]

There's an Epiphone Premium on this site right now for a lot less than $2k. I guess the question is whether this sound is sufficiently different from a Gretsch County Club, as they are both electrified laminates.

Maybe you have heart set on a more acoustic type of sound?! Can't quite tell from your post.

The sounds I really get into are more like Kenny Burrell, Tal Farlow, Barney Kessel, Andy Brown, etc. - more the electric end of things.

[vernon]

Welcome Ellen! You'll find helpful information here. I was looking to get into a decent carved top hollowbody for less than 2k. The best advice I got was buy used and seriously consider Heritage. I found a custom Heritage Eagle from guitar shop in Kansas for 2.5k. More than I wanted to spend, but I am still thrilled to have and play this guitar. It's a buyer's market now... do your research and you'll find something great. My 2 cents.

[EllenGtrGrl]

Check out this demo. He speaks in some foreign language and starts playing at about 6:53. The best sound demo I've found so far:

Yeah, I just heard that demo. It sounds great! My only issue is the neck - I went to the website, and it's listed as a Thin C. As I mentioned in a posted reply to Marcwhy (which hasn't been posted yet - I'm new to the forum, so I'm under moderation), I don't like thin necks (Medium Cs are OK, but I don't like Thin Cs). I play in the classical style (with my thumb behind the neck), and thin necks make my left hand feel like it is trying to act like a C-clamp on the fret board, which I find very uncomfortable.

Another consideration, is my severe nickel allergy (also mentioned in my replay to Marcwhy). Any new guitar I buy has to be refretted (due to the fact that almost all guitars have nickel alloy frets), with Jescar Evo Gold, hypoallergenic frets to keep me from having mega skin breakouts. It's not cheap to have it done (I've spent anywhere from $350 to $450 per guitar having it done), but it was that, or quit playing guitar (I had been playing for 35 years, when this whole allergy mess went down in 2014). So, I have to think long and hard before I buy guitars, due to the cost of re-fretting.

Feeling Befuddled,
Ellen

[dconeill]

In a new guitar, Eastman 371, 372, 403 and other x03 are worth a look. The John Pisano 380 is probably the closest you'll find to a Gibson ES175, with maple-plywood body, mahogany neck, and rosewood fingerboard. The neck is a little wider at the nut than the Gibson's.

Another line worth investigating is Ibanez, believe it or not. Their SS300 and SJ300 look like nice guitars, though I haven't played one, and the Metheny model PM2 is pretty good.

Finally, don't forget about Godin 5th Avenue. The Composer and Uptown HB CW (?) are 1- and 2-pickup guitars in the ES175 direction, though the woods are different.

[Cunamara]

Welcome, Ellen. A discussion like this will demonstrate that you can ask five jazz guitarists a question and get six answers!

Keep any eye on Craigslist- you may be able to score a used ES-175 for about that. There is one locally here for $1950 (1978) and one for $2300 (1972), for example.

[jazz.fred]

Hi Ellen,

I would recommend that you contact Doc Dosco on this forum via PM. I'm confident that he would sell you a Peerless Imperial or Cremona at a price within your budget or very close to it.

[PaulHintz]

Back to the OP's question...
I'd second the suggestions to think 2nd-hand, and the recommendation of Eastman. Especially if a person wants a dry, 'classic' sort of archtop tone as a real change-of-pace from a Gretsch. Been a long time since I knew the guitar-store scene in Milwaukee (I grew up there but moved away in 1984) but it's not much of a drive to the Chicago area, and there must be a store or two with a web presence that one could keep tabs on. Plus a search of past threads on this forum would provide lots of advice, to filter(tron?) through your own goals and experience.

[Bach5G]

Too cheap, but a used Epi Joe Pass will only set you back $500 (and will probably come with a case).

[Max405]

Ellen, none of that should matter here. we are here to help.
i know it's way under your budget but there is a beautiful blond Epiphone Emperor Regent on Reverb that would more than do the trick for $599. That is a great guitar. Check it out and best of luck to you. Welcome aboard.
https://reverb.com/item/2114113-epip...t-2005-natural

Joe D

[Longways to Go]

I own an Epiphone ES 175 premium, an Eastman John Pisano 380, and a Gibson ES 135.
They are all great jazz guitars under $1500.

Have fun shopping!

[EllenGtrGrl]

welcome!!...good to see yet another gdp'er here..there's a few...two of the best guitar forums around

(just don't mention bigsby love around here!!!) haha


cheers

Hi Neatone (oops! I should say neatatomic ). I guess I shouldn't be surprised. As for Bigsbys, you know from my GDP posts, that at best, I have a love/hate relationship with Bigsbys. I just don't know if the Country Club I have on layaway, will really quite cut it for the kind of jazz I like. Sure, per my "Jazz Players Who Play Gretsches (sic)" thread of a couple of years ago on the GDP, I'm a big fan of Sal Salvador, during his Gretsch playing days, but I also love the tones guys like Kenny Burrell get from their Gibson-esque guitars. I just don't know. I really can't afford both the 'Club, and a Peerless, Eastman, Heritage, Gibson, etc.

What do you play jazz with?

Oh, I'm surprised the other GDpers haven't chimed in yet.

[neatomic]

i think cc with dynas and rolled back knobs is very sweet jazz toned...even hi-lo's can sound jazzy...(check brad shepik)

oddly, romantic aesthetics of the big vintage archtop box aside, i like good telecasters, casino/330's and am particularly fond of jazzmasters..when leo f named his newest creation- jazzmaster- he wasn't fooling around!!..he really was trying to go for a solidbody jazz guitar. sound....and i have always thought he succeeded quite nicely

jazz is in the soul..charlie parker sometimes played a plastic alto...he was still bird!! high flyin

so many great and knowledgeable people here..sure you will be flooded with great ideas..heed advice, but trust yourself in equal proportion

again, nice to have you aboard..it's a good place

cheers

[Bluedawg]

Welcome aboard ... there are several good choices under $2K

Ibanez Artcore guitars can be had for under $1K

There are some Heritage and Gibson models that tend to run under $2K used

Do some digging on this site and you'll see several other brands and some reviews

Good Luck!!

[rabbit]

Lovely to meet you, EllenGtrGrl,

Check this out:

Guild Guitars | A-150 Savoy in Blonde

Mine weighs 6 lb.s, has taller than usual frets, a very nice neck.
Notice the 17" lower bout & 3" at the rim.

This has a solid, pressed top. I think it makes a difference; about $1200.

Also, jazz.fred's advice about docdosco is spot-on.

Best of luck!

[rio]

If you are ok with used, there are some great lawsuit guitars to be found from the 70s from Ibanez and some other companies that had guitars made in the same factory. You would come in well under 2000 and have a vintage sounding instrument that rivals the Gibsons that were made at the same time (and modeled after). I would say look for a lawsuit ES175 but that is a 16". But if you are willing to lose an inch, it gets very close to the tone of a "real" 175, which is an iconic jazz guitar sound, and some of them are great players. My '77 D'Agostino (175 lawsuit) has kept me from getting a Gibson 175 because I just can't justify it when the guitar sounds and plays as good as it does, and it was 700 bucks. Definitely worth considering. I also got a '77 Ibanez Artist (es335) and I chose it over 3 Gibson 335s the store had - if you find good lawsuits they are phenomenal.

[Jabberwocky]

Epiphone Broadway Elite/Elitist.