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I've got an endpin jack on mine, and I personally recommend that. But consult with the museum grade collectors first; there are standards of sacred that only collectors can alert you to.
Welcome to the JS club. Originally, mine had a double pickguard and it totally nitro disintegrated. Radical replacement on the pickguard, tailpiece and electronics so I'm happy with mine.
Congrats! May you have a long an musical life together.
DavidLast edited by TH; 04-28-2016 at 04:13 PM.
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04-28-2016 01:40 PM
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That was the part of the design Johnny Smith specified for Gibson. The idea was to get a more solid connection (vibration wise) between neck and body thus enhancing sustain. If I remember correctly, the fingerboard extension is also glued to the top on a larger area than other Gibson archtops of same vintage.
Originally Posted by TruthHertz
Last edited by oldane; 04-28-2016 at 03:09 PM.
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Jazznote,
Congraulations!
From what I've seen of the pics, what you have is a time capsule. It looks barely warn.
I wouldn't worry about the rattling pickguard since it seems Gibson offers that as a mandatory no charge option on every 4th guitar they make. (just kidding).
Jazznote you got a real Johnny. You should be doing cartwheels! I would be. Oh my goodness. I am so happy for you. And to echo what Truth Hertz said, I wish you many many years of musical happiness with that Guitar. Please post some beauty shots. It doesn't get much better than that.
Joe D
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The wood really is beautiful. The spruce has magnificent medullary rays. The maple also has a lot of character in the graining. I don't see much flame, but blondes are better evaluated in person while looking at the back in different angles. Originally Posted by plasticpigeon
The real test is playing it though.
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From what I have read the Gibson JS is not a duplicate of Johnny's D'Angelico. For one thing, I don't think that the D'A featured the neck block we have been discussing. There are similarities, to be sure, but JS had strong ideas about guitar design even before he got his first D'Angelico. And indeed the guitars built for JS were not D'Angelico's standard models (combining the New Yorker and Excel, eventually becoming an informal model of its own). Originally Posted by TruthHertz
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I know that someone sells an endpin jack that fits in a standard endpin hole. But you have to carry an 1/8" cable or adapter with you.
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Thanks Joe! Originally Posted by Joe DeNisco
I succeeded to fix the rattle, which will allow me to take time for further decision of changing it into a on pu guitar.
What does "doing cartwheels" mean ? (my english is not good enough to understand some of the special expressions).
I will try to take some fotos, find it always difficult to capture the beauty of a guitar without being bothered by some nasty light effect or dust or dirt which ruins the picture..
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Thanks Woody Sound! Originally Posted by Woody Sound
I guess one would still need to drill a hole through the wood ....
There's a 1/8" jack under the pick guard. I did somonline research and noticed that a few people mention the higher reliability of 1/4" jacks so i will have to think about what would suit me best.
I will take my time before i decide on something irreversible. Today i fixed the rattle of the pickguard, right now i'm looking for the right size tool to adjust the truss rod, after i have found it i will change the strings and .... take it step by step - even if it takes me half a year.
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I am not a luthier, but I have always suspected that the Johnny Smith guitars, and subsequent Heritage designs are less susceptible to developing tail rise or fall away than the guitars that stay true to earlier bloc/fingerboard design. What do other folks think?
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Greentone, I think if the riser block has an opposing grain to the neck/fretboard then it has less of a change of curling. But for sure my old HJS was dead flat. It had the solid block.
JD
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So here's a shot of the beauty. This is probably the first and last, as i decided to try to return it after discovering a crack, starting from the fingerboard under the neck pu. What a shame! The crack is about 7cm long, upon close inspection also visible inside the box, reaching as far as the X brace on the treble side.
I believe that the seller didn't know about it as it is not obvious at all. I took it as some darker grain, or shadow of the B string when there was light above. I'm in contact with the seller and we will have to figure out how to proceed as he already has payed the owner.
I guess it's a difficult spot to repair a crack and it certainly changes the value of the instrument drastically. So in spite of the liking i took to it already, i believe it's better to part.
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Wow. I'm so sad for you, Jazznote. I think it's the right decision to return it. A crack along a joined (not floating) fingerboard in that location can indicate that a trauma (knock or fall) may have levered the fingerboard block into the body at some point. I've seen that, sometimes in shipping. It could conceivably be a flaw in the wood. Some times a check in the wedge from which the top is carved will be carved posses a check, a crack along the grain line from drying unevenly. The luthier cuts back beyond the start of the check and hopes they got it deep enough. On occasion it is not. A crack will appear and grow. Wood checks follow a grain line. Sometimes they're stopped at a brace, sometimes not. There's no way to distinguish the sources of a crack from simply looking; not knowing the history.
I'm sorry. That'd be repairable in some way but that close to the big neck block, a through the top crack may have had an effect on the X brace or who knows what else. That kind of unknown is a lot of risk.
It's a pretty guitar. Good luck with the search for your true companion.
DavidLast edited by TH; 05-04-2016 at 04:08 PM.
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It's a good thing that you noticed it.
Thats the problem with vintage instruments sometimes.
I really believe that an excellent luthier can get under the top and cleat it properly. Then the guitar will not pull top dollar, but it will be very valuable and will sing for another 40 years.
Good luck to you and thanks for sharing your experience with us.
JD
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There is a chance, based on the description, that this was not caused by trauma, but lack of humidification, probably when the guitar was fairly new. The top is the most susceptible to drying out and the connection to the neck/fingerboard is a common place to crack. Originally Posted by TruthHertz
Based on the age of the guitar, it has likely settled in with no more movement or expansion of the crack. If it is not effecting the tone, I would leave it alone. Otherwise, a cleat installed by a good luthier should put you at ease. If you get it repaired, it is also not hard to conceal such a crack cosmetically.
Good luck in whether you decide to part with it, live with it or repair it.
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To be perfectly honest, I don't think that I would sweat that very much. It is in a location that is not under a lot of strain from the downforce of the strings over the bridge. If the crack runs from the neck block to the X brace then it is basically already cleated. A luthier could put a few more cleats in for peace of mind, if they can reach it through the F hole. It will not affect the tone. Might cost you $100 or so, unless they have to take the back off. If your luthier is anything like mine, he or she will give you an honest assessment. That would be my first step.
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Jazz note,
I'm happy and sad for you at the same time . Vintage guitars require very careful examination for such issues. As others have mentioned - it may be a shrinkage issue due to dehydration, in which case other evidence will be present. Based on your description - it seems like the fret leveling was done in the extension area to compensate for a ramping condition. Perhaps the top was cracked during that work, or even during re- fretting.
In any case, if the price was right for you and you can live with the crack keep it and get it repaired. On the other hand , if it will alway bother you - get rid of it. Also, I would be careful with putting 13 gage flats on a cracked top.
Good luck with your decision.
.
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Very sorry about the crack. Kind of moot now, but the endpin thing is called "Vintage Jack." Originally Posted by JazzNote
Tapastring Guitar Care Products | The "Vintage Jack" | End Pin Jack No Drilling Required
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Originally Posted by Archtop Bill
I wanted to just clarify something here. I do agree that in most likelihood, it's not a trauma crack. And certainly if it'd been in my own possession at the time it appeared and I knew it was a humidity crack, I'd have rapaired it immediately (to minimize oxidation of exposed grain, to discourage shifting due to unequal expansion on either side of the rift, to discourage the spread of the crack...etc) . I've had to deal with uneven surface levels due to warping. I, of course can't know this from the photo alone.
The longer a crack lays exposed, the more the open grain surfaces oxidize, on a microscopic and macro level. This means your window for a simple glue, cleat, align and set is relatively small (by my practice and experience as a luthier...feel free to disagree).
The more involved process is to cut a "V" channel in the crack and find a perfect grain match splice and piece that in there as a wedge splice, trim, cleat, glue, level and refinish that area. That's a sounder approach and more involved (costly). Going all the way to the X brace is also its own issue I won't get into.
Yes, there are simple repairs, and perhaps you can find a luthier who will repair this simply, considering it a simple repair. I wouldn't. Not on an instrument like this where I would see it as something warranting a restoration level repair assuming it's going to be around a long time. Originally Posted by Joe DeNisco
The bottom line is when you don't know the history, you must assume the worst, no matter how unlikely the probability. And once the integrity of a top is compromised, it may be practically and thoroughly repaired...or it may harbour even deeper problems (trauma can cause a failure in a glue line between the neck and block, for instance), and if they show up at some time in the future (neck begins to pull up, end block unglued from the back pulls the back and binding loose...), it should not be a total surprise.
Sorry for the gloomy doomy perspective here. If it were mine and I had all the time in the world, I could pull the top, tap tune and regraduate the top and back, splice the top, check for any trauma signs, recarve a 7 string neck, put an ice tea burst on it and it wouldn't cost me a penny. But ha. It's yours Jazznote. Go into any decision with a comfortable knowledge of the possibilities. It'll make it easier to live with any decision you may make. That's all we can hope for.
David
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I'm lucky, i can return it for the full refund. When i bought this guitar i meant it to become a "luxury investment" which i occasionally could take to gigs. I would not want it to become a problem-source of any kind, so i prefer not to take any risk. I will take the occasion to spend a nice sunny day with my wife at the lake of Geneva when bringing it back to Montreux on Friday.
However, i'm happy to have had the opportunity to play a seventies Johnny Smith and get confirmation that also in this decade some great instruments werde produced at the Gibson factory. I will keep my eyes open, who knows, i might find another JS which feels as good as this one.
For the ones interested here's a close up of the crack, after removing the pickup. I'm still wondering why i didn't suspect the brown line to be a crack earlier in (or before) the buying process.
BTW. i do find the back of the guitar gorgeous, will take some pictures before i bring it back
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Oh yeah.. That would have bothered me too.
Maybe another Casualty of "Smoke on the Water".. (I couldn't resist)..
Sorry about the Guitar. The seller may have to discount the guitar heavily if he were to try and sell it again. It may become a dream guitar for someone who is keen enough to know that such an imperfection really doesn't make much of difference and can be fixed.
Once I again, I am with you. That would bother me.
Thanks, Joe D.
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Today, upon returning the guitar the seller told me that the owner decided to have it fixed, which made me mention that i might be interested in buying it afterwards for a lower price.
This brings up the question of the guitar's value. Prices for US made guitars are certainly higher here in Switzerland than in the US, but i'd still be interested to know how much about this Johnny Smith would be worth (or appraised for) over there.
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How would someone repair that crack? I can't imagine for a moment it makes any difference to the guitar, and I would wager that any intervention save for adding a cleat behind, which is a pain to do as it would need to be done with something like a violin soundpost setter, would make it worse. It can't be opened up and cleaned, it would be ridiculous to take the back or front off, and taking a sliver out patching in and revarnishing wouldn't add any more structural integrity and may look worse than before. Very few people are skilled to do such a thing. With violins and the like the backs and soundboards come off very easily meaning that quite major repairs can be done with the instrument apart. Not so for guitars. If I was the owner I would leave it and take a hit on price, and if I was a buyer I would be happier to buy it in its present state than "repaired", whatever that may be.
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The seller is in guitar-aging business, so he is also thinking of a possibility to "hide" the crack and will ask his luthier for an expertise. Originally Posted by plasticpigeon
For me it is simple. I bought the guitar for 8.7k (it was advertised for 9k) in the belief that it was in close to mint condition (as advertised) which would be a quite good price. At the moment i discovered the crack i realized that its value was not as expected. The seller was not going to negotiate the price with the owner who initially had wanted 11k, so naturally i brought it back. Time will tell how much he will be able to sell it for - repaired or not - i would expect him to have to come down with the price.
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Lots of guitars from the "swing" era--e.g., Gibson L-5, Epiphone Deluxe--have severe play wear on the backs of the necks between frets three and ten. Guys who were playing in bands behind horn sections essentially never played cowboy chords on the first three frets, and nobody took solos way up the neck. It was quarter-note chording in the horn keys, which took a toll on the neck finish.
That said, if I like the guitar--and played in acoustic archtops often sound outstanding--I look at back-of-neck wear as authentication that the guitar was a good one. I, too, would never get a neck refinished.
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