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Being the sort of person who just enjoys finding out everything I can about my gear, I learned today that while I thought my Gibson 1959 VOS ES175 had '57 Classic pickups, it seems they are instead "MHS" Humbuckers. The abbreviation, I'm led to believe, is for "Memphis Historic Specifications."
Does anyone know anything else about these? What's truly odd is that I had gone the Gibson site to look at the specs for this guitar and thought it said 57 Classics; but now it says MHS.
I'm not complaining, mind you. the guitar has not suddenly started sounding awful! I am just a naturally curious person who would not have gotten along well down on the great grey-green limpopo river all set about with fever trees... if you get my meaning... (Rudyard Kipling Alert!)
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04-08-2016 05:01 PM
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I'm confused here: did you actually look at the p'ups or you just read about it?
Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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Actually both. I checked the website twice. Once it said (if I recall rightly) 57 Classics, now it says MHS. Originally Posted by LtKojak
I've actually pulled one of the pickups and looked at it, and all it had was a replica of the old "Patent Applied For" sticker. No other markings that I noticed.
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Sounds like they have changed to different pick-ups after your guitar was made.Your's has the sticker that counts.
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I have these MHS p/ups in my 2015 Memphis 1963 ES-335TDC They are suppose to be made in house at Memphis Alnico 2 neck Alnico 3 bridge. There are more details on the Memphis Gibson website under 1963 ES-335. They sound fantastic in my 335, as good as any PAF or Boutique PAF's Ive heard! I'm really picky (no pun ) about p/ups, and my other guitars have Manluis PAF's in them which are some of the best IMO. Memphis Gibson has really upped their game and agin IMO are making the most consistant finest guitars ever!
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Gibson published specs are half wrong, half simply not true. That's Gibson in a nutshell for ya! Originally Posted by lawson-stone
Anyway, the MHS p'ups were presented for the 2015 and newer "Memphis" line of instruments, so if yours is 2014 or older, '57 Classics are the most plausible candidates.
The few ones with MHS p'ups I had on my bench all had a sticker saying so. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
The ones with solely a PAF sticker are most probably '57 Classics.
Take a DC reading to confirm, as the only thing that Gibson's always been consistent with is to be inconsistent.
Last edited by LtKojak; 04-09-2016 at 02:13 AM.
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I supposedly have them on my ES345 1964 reissue from 2015 - I haven't taken them out to find out for sure. Whatever they are, I love them. Creamy smooth humbucking tones.
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Actually the MHS have the "Patent Applied For" sticker on them too. From pictures I've seen taken by people who have removed them, I see no indication on the pickup that they are MHS.
It's not really that important, but I have this curiosity about things. I like to know what's actually going on with my gear, even if I don't actually do anything about it.
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MHS's are surprisingly much praised Gibson pickups – if "best new Gibson humbucker" is praising.
If Classic 57's are machine wound even coils with wax, Burstbucker 1,2&3 are machine wound uneven coils non waxed (sometimes waxed) then the MHS's are manually scatter wound, uneven coils and no wax.
That means: more PAF like than any Gibson humbucker since '68 or something. (I'll bet somebody know the year better.)
I would gladly try those. I think that Classic 57's and Bb1&2 are quite close but not quite there. MHS could have that 'a little'.
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I don't think the MHS are available as an add-on yet. I can't seem to find them for sale except where someone has pulled them out to replace, and that's not a lot of people. I also find the 57 Classics are really great, and don't think replacement would bring the amount of improvement that would justify the cost.
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Originally Posted by jads57
I have MHS pickups in my ESLes Paul and a ES335VOS '60. and agree with the general opinion ,that they
have the tone quality of the original PAF's ( similar to my 1959 original ES335 ,sadly long gone) IMO it
really depends largely on the instrument to which they are fitted , my 2013 L5CES, and Tal Farlow both
have '57 Classics & both of which sound fine with them. However if I may digress for a moment , I have
just acquired a new Ibanez PM200, which has their Silent 58 pickup ,which is absolutely superb. Having
just A/B'd it against the previously mentioned guitars all through an Evans AH200, and a Mambo, it takes
some beating ,for a Jazz tone. A very powerful pickup without harshness. btw The Ibanez guitars are a
firm favourite with me as well as Gibson ,The former;s QC is better than most, just saying.Last edited by silverfoxx; 04-10-2016 at 03:41 PM.
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These "new" p'ups are just tweaked Burstbuckers. As presented, their "designed coil mismatch" probably sound better in the bridge position (although the difference is a bit too small to really make a difference, if you ask me), but if the published specs are right, the same design, due to the harmonic nodes read by the coils, just doesn't fare as well in the neck position, unless the p'up is installed closest to the neck's end on a 20-fretter... however, the general lighter wind compared with their predecessors, plus the A3 magnet (big fan) in the neck will at least take care a little bit of their biggest complain, which is muddiness. I just haven't had enough quality time to confirm my findings, but what's written is based on first-hand, actual experiences. Originally Posted by Herbie
HTH,Last edited by LtKojak; 04-10-2016 at 07:04 AM.
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Great pickups tend to project strengths as well as weakness in ones instrument. That's wh I like less powerful ,clearer PAF p/ups for most applications. I replaced the stock p/ups in both my Benedetto Bambino Std (Seymour Duncan wound) as well the Classic/Classic 57Plus in my ES-339 Studio, w/ Manluis PAF's. They were good p/ups but a bit too hot, and lacked the clarity I prefer. The MHS are Just Right!
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For the 59 VOS 175 it depends what year you have. They started out using 57 classics on them then for the 2015 model year they advertised the MHS pickups on them. The 1st year for the 59 VOS 175 was 2012.
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BOOM Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
Question answered. Many thanks!
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I wrote unprecisely: I meant 'new' as 'non-PAF'. But yeah, MHS came after Burstbuckers AND Custombuckers, which are BB's w/ Alnico III mag. Many likes them too. Shipped in some signature Les Pauls. Originally Posted by LtKojak
(I hope I remember correct!)
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Actually, the Custombuckers are the 1st "original" p'up design that Gibson came up in almost sixty years. Originally Posted by Herbie
They're wound with the lowest TPL their winder can manage, to mimic a "random" hand-wound pattern, plus the chosen A3 give'em a somewhat "scooped" tone-footprint, that might please some bluesy players, but their "politeness" does not bode well with rockers. Jazzers might like'em a lot if they were capable to accept in their minds that the '57 Classics are mediocre at best... which most will even not entertain the idea.
HTH,
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So tell me more about these pickups. I actually don't have a lot of experience with Gibson-branded pickups. I have the ES175 with 57 Classics, and an ES165 with the 490R. I'm not hot to change either, and the 165 especially sounds really nice. I'm not so sure I'm satisfied with the 175. The pickups have, to my ear, a little too much "snarl" if that makes any sense! Originally Posted by LtKojak
All the other Gibson X-buckers I have no clue about (Burst-Buckers, Custom-Buckers, whatever-buckers).
I also have an Epiphone Broadway with a Seymour Duncan Seth-Lover in the neck slot, and I like that one a lot.
I think I don't want to duplicate pickups on different guitars, because I like them to have a different sound. I'd be game to think about replacing the pups on the 175.
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Trust me on this one this guy makes pickups as good as the Memphis MHS in my ES-335 '63 Historic Memphis model.Humbuckers ? Manlius Guitar
I have several sets in Gibson ES-339 Studio, as well as my Benedetto Bambino Std. There are other wonderful p/ups from other winders, but this guy Nails it, and is reasonable $ priced as well!
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Ok. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
So tell me, what would you like to accomplish that your p'ups are not delivering?
Explain it to me and I'd might be able to steer you into the right direction.
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It's hard to describe. It's not that the 175 (57 Classics) sounds bad. But there is a sharpness to the sound, maybe over-bright (?) that's hard to dial out without thinning it down. I do enjoy playing it, but I think I would like my highs to be soft and thick, not piercing and "hot" sounding. That's a statement about sound, not power/volume. I love the Seymour Duncan Seth Lover on my Epiphone Broadway, and I love the 490R on my 165. I don't necessarily want the 175 to sound like them, but maybe something in that direction. I hope I'm not just saying "I wish it sounded more like an L5ces" because I like the traditional chunky 175 sound. Originally Posted by LtKojak
I am also hesitant to mess with the original configuration of the guitar, and I am wondering if the shift I would like is too small to be worth putting a lot of money and time into. I likely ought to play this guitar a couple more months and see if I learn to get more exactly what I want out of it.
But I process decisions like this for a looooong time, so information way up front is always welcome.
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Lawson it is not your pickups. 57 classics are very warm sounding. It is your guitar. I have had 3 59 VOS 175's and they all sounded exactly how you described. My regular ES175 also has the 57 classic and it is very warm with the classic 175 thickness and thunk. The 1959 VOS 175's are very bright sounding. It is the nature of the beast. The 59 and the regular 175's are completely different animals. Your 165 is built exactly like a regular 175 with the only difference being a slightly hotter pickup in the 165.
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Vin, The frets make a difference too right? I remember my 53' 175 had the little skinny frets like my L7c had and they both had that same feathery light sound. The '97 175 I had and the '99 165 were very similar sounding to me, with the 165 have an edge on definition. Both the later had medium Jumbo frets..
Lawson - does your VOS175 have the skinny frets?
Joe D
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Yes Joe, skinny frets makes for a brighter tone. Less crown surface.
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Lawson, have you tried adjusting the pickup height? Probably down a bit?
57 classics are pretty polite sounding for a Gibson. I find the Burstbuckers to have a lot more attitude and snarl.
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