Gibson MHS Pickups?

**lawson-stone** · 04-15-2016, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by vinnyv1k

Lawson it is not your pickups. 57 classics are very warm sounding. It is your guitar. I have had 3 59 VOS 175's and they all sounded exactly how you described. My regular ES175 also has the 57 classic and it is very warm with the classic 175 thickness and thunk. The 1959 VOS 175's are very bright sounding. It is the nature of the beast. The 59 and the regular 175's are completely different animals. Your 165 is built exactly like a regular 175 with the only difference being a slightly hotter pickup in the 165.

Actually that helps. I'm not unhappy with the sound so much as pushing what the possibilities might be, what the impact of the pickups might be, etc.

I should have remembered that these guitars are brighter. I mean, this guitar weighs less than 6 pounds, closer to 5 pounds even. That's about the same weight as my Loar LH650, (solid carved L4c clone).

It is actually fun to play the Loar (solid carved, floater) the 165 and this 175 one after the other. They all have the identical body shape, scale-length, all have hum buckers, but they all have very distinct tone and I have tried, and found I really can't tweak one guitar and make it sound exactly like one of the others. I can get close, but it's not a closeness that you could set and play for 2 hours on a gig.

I find I'm liking this, so probably the pickups will stay.

**Lobomov** · 04-15-2016, 10:41 AM

I really really like the MHS neck A3 neck. Smooth creamy and with mire mids that the 57. To me the 57s always scounded too scooped and thus too bluesy.

Sendt fra min SM-G925F med Tapatalk

**joe2758** · 04-15-2016, 10:42 AM

I've been trying to decide for almost a year if I want to put the humbucker sized P90s in my 2013 175 (i got them for free). I feel your pain, Lawson; always a tough decision.

**LtKojak** · 04-16-2016, 04:22 AM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

It's hard to describe. It's not that the 175 (57 Classics) sounds bad. But there is a sharpness to the sound, maybe over-bright (?) that's hard to dial out without thinning it down. I do enjoy playing it, but I think I would like my highs to be soft and thick, not piercing and "hot" sounding.

Originally Posted by vinnyv1k

Lawson it is not your pickups. 57 classics are very warm sounding. It is your guitar.

Well, I have to go with vinny here, padre.

If you hear the '57s as "sharp", it DEFINITELY IS NOT the p'ups.

HTH,

**Max405** · 04-16-2016, 07:01 AM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

Actually that helps. I'm not unhappy with the sound so much as pushing what the possibilities might be, what the impact of the pickups might be, etc.

I should have remembered that these guitars are brighter. I mean, this guitar weighs less than 6 pounds, closer to 5 pounds even. That's about the same weight as my Loar LH650, (solid carved L4c clone).

It is actually fun to play the Loar (solid carved, floater) the 165 and this 175 one after the other. They all have the identical body shape, scale-length, all have hum buckers, but they all have very distinct tone and I have tried, and found I really can't tweak one guitar and make it sound exactly like one of the others. I can get close, but it's not a closeness that you could set and play for 2 hours on a gig.

I find I'm liking this, so probably the pickups will stay.

i think it's great to have 3 guitars with specs/dimensions that are comfortable for you - and they each have a unique sound. Eventually, The one you get tired of will end up in the launched position. Time, careful consideration and research will make your lineup perfect for you. And how much more fun can you ask for?
Joe D

**lawson-stone** · 04-16-2016, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by LtKojak

Well, I have to go with vinny here, padre.

If you hear the '57s as "sharp", it DEFINITELY IS NOT the p'ups.

HTH,

Thanks! In one sense that's all I need to know. I'm going to hunker down and find this guitar's sweet spot.

**lawson-stone** · 04-16-2016, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by Joe DeNisco

i think it's great to have 3 guitars with specs/dimensions that are comfortable for you - and they each have a unique sound. Eventually, The one you get tired of will end up in the launched position. Time, careful consideration and research will make your lineup perfect for you. And how much more fun can you ask for?
Joe D

You're right. This is the most fun a guy can have with his clothes on!

**lawson-stone** · 04-17-2016, 07:28 PM

Hey folks,
I just remembered that a few weeks back, in another connection, I recorded a kind of A-B comparison of the ES165 (490R) and the 1959 VOS ES175 (57 Classics). I did a pretty lame-o chord melody chorus of "Misty" on each. For each one, the volume and tone were set at 10. They are played through a Polytone Minibrute II with the EQ "flat" at 12 o'clock. The amp was mic'd with a Bluebird mic and recording on my MacBook Pro with Screenflow.

For those who care, and can endure two choruses of my elementary chord-solo playing...

**vinnyv1k** · 04-17-2016, 08:01 PM

I prefer the 165 tone but that is just me. Nice job Lawson.

**lawson-stone** · 04-17-2016, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by vinnyv1k

I prefer the 165 tone but that is just me. Nice job Lawson.

For this kind of playing so do I. In fact, with this guitar, I'm wondering whether I even need any guitars with floating pickups. This one really does the job for solo guitar playing that I always thought the guitars with floating pickups would excel at.

**Max405** · 04-17-2016, 09:25 PM

Lawson,
the 165 sounds great. Trust me, it's the frets. I'm surprised Vinny isn't all over this one. The skinny frets are tone altering. Not in a bad way, but it's there.
Real nice playing.
JD

**vinnyv1k** · 04-18-2016, 04:44 PM

Check out any of the jazz greats past or present that had or have great tone. They all have fat frets. A skinny fret will give you a more defined clarity and volume but also will give you brightness. Skinny frets work well on a acoustic flat top but for a jazz box jumbo/mediums are the way to go IMO. Of course opinions are like........

**Archtop Guy** · 04-19-2016, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by vinnyv1k

Check out any of the jazz greats past or present that had or have great tone. They all have fat frets. A skinny fret will give you a more defined clarity and volume but also will give you brightness. Skinny frets work well on a acoustic flat top but for a jazz box jumbo/mediums are the way to go IMO. Of course opinions are like........

I recently purchased my L7c reissue from Joe.With it's skinny frets. I to like larger frets but,each guitar is different. This L7c sounds wonderful with the thin frets. As you can judge for yourselves by watching Joe's video playing it. I do agree with you Vinny about thin frets and flattops. After I bought this I wrote to Joe saying that this guitar filled a void for me in that it not only does that warm chord melody sound but it can also jump into a J200 mode. A versatile guitar. With skinny frets.

**lawson-stone** · 04-20-2016, 04:57 PM

Well friends, I took a chance. I decided that whether it's "scooped" or "sharp" or "biting" or whatever, I figured some pickup has got to be better than this Classic 57. I really had a great experience with the Seymour Duncan Seth Lover on my Epiphone Broadway, so for this ES175, with it's "aged" looks, I sprung for the Seymour Duncan "Antiquity" pickup. Just put it in and though the difference is subtle, to me it's very significant. If I pick hard in a certain way, i can still get that "bite" in the treble, but I have to go for that sound. Otherwise, it seems like this pickup has a richer middle. I can play the guitar with the tone on 10 for solo/chord melody style and it sounds very nice. It's still not as magisterial as the ES165 with the 490R, which really verges on competing with my solid-top guitars with floaters. But this pickup change has shifted the center of gravity enough on this 175 to get it right where I want it. Still different from the other two 16" Florentines, but a sound I can easily work with and enjoy.

**Herbie** · 09-22-2016, 06:54 PM

A while ago I found a cheapish MHS neck pu in the Ebay and bought it.

In fact I was a bit hesitant to put it in my ES175 VOS, because all the of the pu swapping I have had with it. And ended to the stock Classic 57.

But two days ago I finally put it in. First it didn't make any special impression, sounded about Classic 57.

But yesterday I played with the band and the guitar felt and sounded almost new. 3dimensional is a bit funny and cliché about humbucker pickup but that describes fully the feeling. The pick response was more sensitive and the sound was full and warm although I played very quiet.

I was astonished. MHS really made a difference – which Lollar Imperial, SD Antiquity, Seth Lovers, Burstbucker 1 & 2 or Lollar Charlie Christian pu had not made. (At least in this guitar, in my ears.)

Gigging with it on sunday, interesting to hear do I hear the difference in crowded (hopefully!) bar!

**GNAPPI** · 09-22-2016, 07:53 PM

I get companies trying to ride the coat tails of a famous pup, but I find it HILARIOUS that Gibson is the biggest cloner out there.

Add to that they keep missing the mark, over and over and over... they must or there wouln't be a continual stream of "paf" "vintage" clones.

Oh well anything is better than the burstbucker... that in itself is an idiotic name. Just what does it attempt to burst anyway?

I guess it (the bb) failed not once, not twice but THREE TIMES? :-) It's like they LOVE advertising how totally inept they are at duplicating their own design.

Egads I wonder who the frig is at the helm over there? whoever it is, they need a new Captain or a new decision making dartboard :-)

**John A.** · 09-22-2016, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by GNAPPI

I get companies trying to ride the coat tails of a famous pup, but I find it HILARIOUS that Gibson is the biggest cloner out there.

Add to that they keep missing the mark, over and over and over... they must or there wouln't be a continual stream of "paf" "vintage" clones.

Oh well anything is better than the burstbucker... that in itself is an idiotic name. Just what does it attempt to burst anyway?

I guess it (the bb) failed not once, not twice but THREE TIMES? :-) It's like they LOVE advertising how totally inept they are at duplicating their own design.

Egads I wonder who the frig is at the helm over there? whoever it is, they need a new Captain or a new decision making dartboard :-)

I think the burst in burstbucker refers to sunburst Les Pauls, i.e., the sons of Orville claim it's the pup that gets you closest to what was stolen from Eric, or lost by Bloomers, or cast aside by the madness of Greenie. Hmmm, maybe the next time they finally, really, for sure, get the reincarnation of PAFs right they should call me 'em Stolen Bean-os, Lost Bloomers, and Abandoned Greens. Or maybe just Lost Bloomers.

John

**Herbie** · 09-22-2016, 08:58 PM

Yes, the name Burstbucker comes from the '59 sunburst lp's. I read somewhere that some japanese collector reminded the company that the great deal of the sound of PAF pickups comes from the fact that the humbucker coils are not evenly full of the magnetic wire. So they developed the three step Bb model and started selling Burstbuckers in Japan in 1996.

I like Burstbuckers in some guitars a lot, more than Classic 57 in general.

I think that when we bash Gibson CEO Henry we don't remember that he is the guy who "saved" the company from the even "more evil" Norlin in early 80's. And sometimes I wonder who would enjoy to try to lead creatively a company which made its greatest innovations before the year 1960.

But I enjoy my Les Pauls and ES175 VOS with a MHS humbucker so I guess someone there has made some correct decisions too.

**GNAPPI** · 09-22-2016, 09:02 PM

I think the burst in burstbucker refers to sunburst Les Pauls, i.e., the sons of Orville claim it's the pup that gets you closest to what was stolen

Gibson pretty clearly (IMO) has lost touch. Fom their website...

The BurstBucker™ line of pickups represents Gibson’s drive to recapture the magic of the original “Patent Applied For” humbuckers. First introduced in the early 1990s, the Gibson BurstBucker™ — Types 1, 2, and 3 —

Forget a new Captain, I think a dartboad or wheel of fortune will make better decisions.