Neo speakers that sound good

**pingu** · 03-22-2016, 09:45 AM

Any good ones around yet ?

Ideally I want a good 8" Neo if I can get one

anyone heard the newish Eminance AlphaLite 6a (2.2 lbs) !!
the Fz plot looks similar to an Emi Beta 8a

one could build a sealed or ported Cab with 2 x 6a which would be cute

I might end up using a Beta 8A (6 1/2lbs ) in a ported Cab
they still seem to be the choice of Mambo , Hennriksen etc etc

The Plan is to make a ultra minimum weight Rig....
probably with a GK MB 200 amp ..... 2 lbs

thanks for the reviews of these and your small cabs Jim S

**jorgemg1984** · 03-22-2016, 10:06 AM

If you can afford, get the Mambo 8 combo. As small and light as possible I believe... I don't think you'll find a good 8 neo speaker but who knows!

**medblues** · 03-22-2016, 11:45 AM

I like the Eminence Basslite s2010, mine is in a Lopo cab (now purchased by Mojotone I believe). The whole thing weighs 25 lbs. Warning: I am not a tone connoisseur.

**Franz 1997** · 03-22-2016, 12:22 PM

I had a look at the alphalite 6a Jem, but the response chart is nothing like the beta 8, no bass at all. Is this the right one?

The beta 8 works pretty well; yes, 6 1/2 lb, but surely that's not too much?

I have had no luck at all with neo speakers, they just don't sound right to my ears, the only exception being Celestion Century Vintage 12.

Bearing in mind that neo experimentation is expensive, I have stopped looking and I just put up with heaving the heavy load of the 16lb mambo 8.

**pingu** · 03-22-2016, 01:30 PM

Yes thats the one Chris ,

(strange the Eminance charts looked very similar to me !
Beta 8a = 95.1 sens about 92 at 100 Hz
Alphalite 6a = 94db sens , again about 92 db at 100 Hz
both bass rolloffs look similar slopes too to me)

anyway yes I may well end up with a Beta 8a , as its so well proven and favored
It would be a safer bet to go that way certainly ....

I do respect your opinion greatly
meanwhile I've got a little voice inside saying "weight wise , how low can you go ?"

I mean the thing could end up being less than 10lbs .....

**Franz 1997** · 03-22-2016, 02:30 PM

Sorry Jem I looked at the wrong one; yes it's pretty similar. It is more expensive though..

You're right that the beta is the proven item. Keep us posted about what you decide

**jzucker** · 03-22-2016, 06:16 PM

i've tried almost all of them including the expensive italian Faital Pro and IMO, none of them sound very good. They all have a peaky, ear-splitting midrange spike and are very fatiguing when used in a guitar cabinet where they are responsible for bass, mid and treble. They seem to work better in PA cabinets and bass cabinets as woofers

**Skip Ellis** · 03-22-2016, 06:39 PM

Jack, I use a 12" SICA (from Italy) - it's a 4 ohm 300+ watt bass speaker in an open backed homemade cabinet that I originally played pedal steel through using an MB200 with whatever reverb unit I liked that day. I don't play steel any more but kept it around to play guitar through and it works well. My whole 200 watt rig weighs about 20 pounds - nice when you're old!! It's my only amp at the moment and I have a friend building me a BF Princeton pre to run into the aux of the MB200 to 'Fender' it up a little. I wish I could have kept the 1970 Vibrolux Reverb I sold here awhile back - best amp I ever played through-just too heavy for the old back!!

Jack - I sent you a PM.

**neatomic** · 03-22-2016, 07:41 PM

power handling aside, the difference in weight between an 8" neo-alnico-ceramic is negligible..they are all around the 2.2 lbs weight

a tone tubby alnico 8" will sound great..but is rated 35 watts

cheers

**rhoadsscholar** · 03-22-2016, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by Franz 1997

I had a look at the alphalite 6a Jem, but the response chart is nothing like the beta 8, no bass at all. Is this the right one?

The beta 8 works pretty well; yes, 6 1/2 lb, but surely that's not too much?

I have had no luck at all with neo speakers, they just don't sound right to my ears, the only exception being Celestion Century Vintage 12.

Bearing in mind that neo experimentation is expensive, I have stopped looking and I just put up with heaving the heavy load of the 16lb mambo 8.

+ 1 for the Heritage Century Vintage 12. Amazing sound, light weight. Can't say enough good things about this speaker

**jzucker** · 03-23-2016, 07:37 AM

the problem with speaker and audio reviews in general is that we all suffer from psycho-acoustic tendencies. This causes us to get used to the sound of a speaker and it's flaws. This is often confused with a speaker or a guitar breaking in...What may sound tinny or muddy or peaky gets normalized by our brains. The best example of this I personally had was with my quilter aviator. After a few weeks, I was convinced that it was a very clean, transparent tone. Then I deliberately played through my deluxe reverb for 2 weeks and when I came back to the quilter, I realized it was peaky and nasally sounding. It's absolutely necessary to go back to a known, neutral reference source as a psycho-acoustic palette-cleansing prior to re-evaluating a sound source such as a speaker.

**rickshapiro** · 03-23-2016, 09:05 AM

I love the sound of the 12 inch neo in the my Quilter MicroPro 2. I really do not know how much to attribute to the speaker as I have not tried the amp with any other speaker. I've been using this amp on all my gigs. I've taken it out with my Godin Nylon, Archtops and use it for all my rock gigs with my solidbodies. I've even used it at a party as a keyboard amp.

There is an 8 inch version of the speaker I believe- Celestion BN10-200X . Keep in mind these are bass speakers but seem pretty full range and transparent to me.

**rickshapiro** · 03-23-2016, 09:23 AM

Maybe a bit of a different take. I do not even think it has to do with getting used to flaws. I've noticed even in a single session, or one evening, when switching between amps and cabs, whether real or modeled, that my ear kind of adjusts over a really short period of time. For example when playing clean on my Orange Rockerverb and switching over to clean onmy AC15, the AC15 will sound strange and displeasing, but after a bit it begins to sound "good" or at least normal. The same happens switching to the next amp.

I wonder how one would/could define a "neutral reference"?

Regards,

Rick

Originally Posted by jzucker

the problem with speaker and audio reviews in general is that we all suffer from psycho-acoustic tendencies. This causes us to get used to the sound of a speaker and it's flaws. This is often confused with a speaker or a guitar breaking in...What may sound tinny or muddy or peaky gets normalized by our brains. The best example of this I personally had was with my quilter aviator. After a few weeks, I was convinced that it was a very clean, transparent tone. Then I deliberately played through my deluxe reverb for 2 weeks and when I came back to the quilter, I realized it was peaky and nasally sounding. It's absolutely necessary to go back to a known, neutral reference source as a psycho-acoustic palette-cleansing prior to re-evaluating a sound source such as a speaker.

**jads57** · 03-23-2016, 10:10 AM

I've found that there is no one speaker that gives me everything. But I've been fairly happy w/ Jensen Neo Tornado 100 watt 12" 8 ohms in a closed back cab. And a Warehouse ET90 (100 watt) 8 ohms ina open back. I used to use EV 12L's but just can't deal w/ the weight issues. The Celestion Neo Quilter is using in their guitar amps sounds excellent as well, but pretty pricey $$$

**jzucker** · 03-23-2016, 10:33 AM

Nothing's truly a neutral reference but a deluxe reverb will do well to cleanse the palette.

Originally Posted by rickshapiro

Maybe a bit of a different take. I do not even think it has to do with getting used to flaws. I've noticed even in a single session, or one evening, when switching between amps and cabs, whether real or modeled, that my ear kind of adjusts over a really short period of time. For example when playing clean on my Orange Rockerverb and switching over to clean onmy AC15, the AC15 will sound strange and displeasing, but after a bit it begins to sound "good" or at least normal. The same happens switching to the next amp.

I wonder how one would/could define a "neutral reference"?

Regards,

Rick

**jzucker** · 03-23-2016, 10:38 AM

One of the issues with bass speakers (and woofers in general) is that they are not designed to be used for the entire range of their tonal curve. Almost every bass cabinet you can buy these days uses the woofer and a crossover

As a point of reference, the woofer in my Corus amp kicks over to the midrange speaker at 150hz !

Originally Posted by rickshapiro

I love the sound of the 12 inch neo in the my Quilter MicroPro 2. I really do not know how much to attribute to the speaker as I have not tried the amp with any other speaker. I've been using this amp on all my gigs. I've taken it out with my Godin Nylon, Archtops and use it for all my rock gigs with my solidbodies. I've even used it at a party as a keyboard amp.

There is an 8 inch version of the speaker I believe- Celestion BN10-200X . Keep in mind these are bass speakers but seem pretty full range and transparent to me.

**rickshapiro** · 03-23-2016, 11:40 AM

Interesting. The neo in my Quilter is rated from 50 - 4000HZ, a Celestion Gold is 75-5000HZ. The frequency response curves do not look much different. I do think Quilter, like others is going with the NEO for the weight savings and power handling.

What is still amazing , is my acoustics sounds good through the Quilter. I never had any other " electric guitar" work well with my acoustics and nylons.

Regards,

Rick

Originally Posted by jzucker

One of the issues with bass speakers (and woofers in general) is that they are not designed to be used for the entire range of their tonal curve. Almost every bass cabinet you can buy these days uses the woofer and a crossover

As a point of reference, the woofer in my Corus amp kicks over to the midrange speaker at 150hz !

**Woody Sound** · 03-23-2016, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by jads57

The Celestion Neo Quilter is using in their guitar amps sounds excellent as well, but pretty pricey $$$

I just bought one of these to put into a Raezers Edge 12-ER, strictly to cut down on weight. Will knock off about 7 lbs. Since I have two of these RE's, I'll be in a good position to compare it with the original Emi Delta.

**skiboyny** · 03-26-2016, 09:38 AM

I totally agree with this and to some degree the same goes with guitars. I wonder if recording them (speakers,amp, guitars) would give you a clearer picture. If your enjoying the experience, you might define it as sounding good but is that your ideal sound? Make any sense?

Originally Posted by jzucker

the problem with speaker and audio reviews in general is that we all suffer from psycho-acoustic tendencies. This causes us to get used to the sound of a speaker and it's flaws. This is often confused with a speaker or a guitar breaking in...What may sound tinny or muddy or peaky gets normalized by our brains. The best example of this I personally had was with my quilter aviator. After a few weeks, I was convinced that it was a very clean, transparent tone. Then I deliberately played through my deluxe reverb for 2 weeks and when I came back to the quilter, I realized it was peaky and nasally sounding. It's absolutely necessary to go back to a known, neutral reference source as a psycho-acoustic palette-cleansing prior to re-evaluating a sound source such as a speaker.

**Jazz_175** · 03-26-2016, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

the problem with speaker and audio reviews in general is that we all suffer from psycho-acoustic tendencies. This causes us to get used to the sound of a speaker and it's flaws. This is often confused with a speaker or a guitar breaking in...What may sound tinny or muddy or peaky gets normalized by our brains. The best example of this I personally had was with my quilter aviator. After a few weeks, I was convinced that it was a very clean, transparent tone. Then I deliberately played through my deluxe reverb for 2 weeks and when I came back to the quilter, I realized it was peaky and nasally sounding. It's absolutely necessary to go back to a known, neutral reference source as a psycho-acoustic palette-cleansing prior to re-evaluating a sound source such as a speaker.

Well...in principle it is not such a bad thing. You should not have gone back deliberately to your deluxe reverb and you would have been still quite happy with your sound.

Anyway, same thing happens to me, considering that I have a Fender Deluxe Reverb and a Henriksen side by side.

**MaxTwang** · 03-26-2016, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

the problem with speaker and audio reviews in general is that we all suffer from psycho-acoustic tendencies. This causes us to get used to the sound of a speaker and it's flaws. This is often confused with a speaker or a guitar breaking in...What may sound tinny or muddy or peaky gets normalized by our brains.
...

The real problem is guitar players are stuck on the sound of the 1940's and 1950's radio speakers that were used in early guitar amps.

**jzucker** · 03-26-2016, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by MaxTwang

The real problem is guitar players are stuck on the sound of the 1940's and 1950's radio speakers that were used in early guitar amps.

Nope, not true. I've been using PA style speakers for over a dozen years. The real problem is that the neo speakers are peaky and there's not enough money in musical instrument speakers for the companies to do the real R&D necessary to get the neo speakers to sound transparent for musical instruments.

**jzucker** · 03-26-2016, 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by Jazz_175

Well...in principle it is not such a bad thing. You should not have gone back deliberately to your deluxe reverb and you would have been still quite happy with your sound.

Anyway, same thing happens to me, considering that I have a Fender Deluxe Reverb and a Henriksen side by side.

no because I made the mistake of recording with the quilter and for some reason, then I could hear it!

**medblues** · 03-26-2016, 09:09 PM

If you have not already bought the GK MB200 and don't mind the expense ($900), this 150W Phil Jones bass amp has 4 x 5-inch neo speakers and weighs 24 lbs. They also have 70W and 100W versions down to 9 lbs.