Vintage V1700

[Jonah]

I am now looking for a decent acoustic flattop.

I do not buy acoustic instruments without trying it so my choice is limited with availability on local market.

Martin or Taylor are peerly represented here - with by the cheapest models or just a few very expensive ones that seem to stay in the show room forever...

so I focused more on Takamine, Breedlove and Norman/Seagull that are available in the shops here in some variety...

I like full-size jumbo guitars - that's my personal preference - though I try any and do not limit myself - but I go to try jumbos first...

So.. in one of the sops that mostly sold Takamines and Breedloves - I occasionaly came across Vintage V1700... as far as I can understand Vintage is British Chinese brand and seems to be something like modern Epi.. cheap copies of pther brands with unpredicatable quality issues...

This time it was not my idea to look for compromises - I wanted to get what I wanted really... but since there were not so many jumbos at all.. I tried this one.

The tone was really nice... which can be explained partly by the fact it's all solid body guitar... and it had really open and light jumbo sound I like...

Playability is ok.. I like the feel of the neck.. but I also so that some adjustments will be required for sure (within USD100 cost or so)...

I am not sure I am going to buy it... it hang there for quite a long time I believe.. and I was looking for other brand actually...
not sure also because the shop offers reduced price ... maybe I'll stop by in a couple of weeks and it will be even more reduced I'll give it another thought...

But the thing is that when I got hold on Takamine with the same specs - solid spruce top/solide flame mapple sides and back jumbo (and which costed twice as much) it did not feel that comfortable... it sounded fine but still...

One of the features I liked in tah Vintage jumbo was arched fretboard profile...

So my question is - I believe these guitars are made after some original brand.. does anybody know which one could be the prototype... or probably some other guitars with close specs to compare with

- full size jumbo
- solid spruce top
- solid flame maple sides back
- rounded fretboard profile

[BigMikeinNJ]

I don't have to experience with the brand, but I've seen used examples for sale online that looked pretty nice.

Here's the thing, if this cheaper guitar was mostly comfortable to play AND it sounded better than the Takamine run back and buy the Vintage. Then take it to a really good guitar tech, get exactly the best strings for it and talk to the tech about the action you want. Rarely does a guitar in a store have a decent setup. Even the very high end archtops need some work to play and sound their best. Think of this guitar as a gemstone that needs a final polish, or a fine silk suit that needs a bit of custom tailoring to really feel great.

Dont wait, some smart guy may come in and buy it out from under you.
Even if you have to wait a short while before you can afford that setup, at least you will have the guitar.
Once in my IBM days I went to a guitar shop and saw a killer Ibanez Scruggs For sale, amazing guitar. I could have swung the deal, but didn't. Back at work I ran into my boss, a cool guy, and told him about it. He suggested I take half a day off and go right back. I didn't, I waited until after work. When I got to the store the Scruggs was sold, gone. You only have to do that once to know never to pass on that kind of deal twice.

Call my post food for thought.

[neuroscan]

For what it's worth, I picked up a 2nd hand jumbo Vintage V700N two years ago. That's the cheaper sibling of the V1700 that you were looking it, the main difference being that although the top is solid, the sides and back are (ridiculously flamed, probably photo flame) laminate. What can I say, that things just sounds fantastic, loud and deep. I am not surprised that you would find the V1700 appealing. Mine also needed a bit of setup work. A common problem is that the action is too high, and taking it down requires some shaving down of the bridge. But, it was totally worth it, one of the best buys I have ever done.

[Jonah]

For what it's worth, I picked up a 2nd hand jumbo Vintage V700N two years ago. That's the cheaper sibling of the V1700 that you were looking it, the main difference being that although the top is solid, the sides and back are (ridiculously flamed, probably photo flame) laminate. What can I say, that things just sounds fantastic, loud and deep. I am not surprised that you would find the V1700 appealing. Mine also needed a bit of setup work. A common problem is that the action is too high, and taking it down requires some shaving down of the bridge. But, it was totally worth it, one of the best buys I have ever done.

Thank you

V700N was also there, and they had some similarity in tone quality, V1700 was deeper and more balanced, more rounded tone...

[Jonah]

I don't have to experience with the brand, but I've seen used examples for sale online that looked pretty nice..

.....

Thank you... BigMike... looks like I will be back there tommorrow

[Jonah]

I could not resisit any more and bought it today...

i checked the internet and saw that in local shops it does not sell... I could only buy it via internet - considering delivery and customs price and issues/currency exchange rate and certain unpredictability... I liked this one but maybe the one I will get i will not like...
Besides the only similar guitar (generally by specs) is Gibson J200 that costs 5 - 6 times as much...

As I said it had some issues and I managed to negotiate almost 30% discount...

So I got it.

I think they had it for quite a long time... and were not sure they would ever sell it.. it's too specific... people mostly come in for other types of guitars...
on the other hand they offered me many options again - both of cheaper and more expesive guitars to try... I mean they did not try to convince me to get it.

I like the shop in general - the owner and two his friends work in the show room themselves - they are all above 40 - not students that usually work in the big network stores...

I will change strings and get it to my tech... after I play more into it in a couple of week I will give a feedback and pics here.. maybe it would useful for someone else in the future

[BigMikeinNJ]

​Good news, glad you got it.

[jazzbow]

Jonah,

I find the Vintage brand to be very good quality for its price point. JHS, the owner of the brand, also have a hand in Fret King.

One to look out for is the line of big bodied Jazz guitars made by Peerless but with Vintage branding.
I think it was only a limited production line.

I would say they would be a steal if you can find one of these. I cannot remember the branded name and there is little info on them but they are out there....

[Jonah]

I want to change strings now.... it had very light... I gauged it - it was 0.10...

I want to try a set of 0.13 I am used to on archtop... if they will be too heavy for this guitar I'll probably try 0,12

the thing is I never jumped from .10 to .13 - will it not be too much immediate tension change? Or I just should wait for a day or two and check the relief to adjust the truss rod...


And another question is the action at the highest frets - around 15 and on - is eveidently higher than below... not dramtically - I can play it but still I can see it...
at the same time the guitar is perfectly in tune at any fret in any string... usually when action is not as it was planned to be in some fret it makes it out of tune in these spots

So the question is should I adjust truss rod and will it help in this case?

Sometimes I saw guitars where fretboard is made this way on purpose - to have more space between strings and guitar over the top so that play would not have touched the top while playing.. but this was usually on very light instruments with nylin strings, I am sure it works here like this...

My acoustics experience was moslty classical guiatrs... and with archtops I just was lucky that I did not encounter the problem....

Thank you in advance for any advice

[jazzbow]

the thing is I never jumped from .10 to .13 - will it not be too much immediate tension change? Or I just should wait for a day or two and check the relief to adjust the truss rod...

Hi Jonah..

Yes, wait a day or two to check neck relief.

Remember on acoustic guitars the truss rod ends at the neck join and not at the end of the fingerboard.

Neck relief should be checked at the 8th fret.

And another question is the action at the highest frets - around 15 and on - is eveidently higher than below... not dramatically - I can play it but still I can see it.

This is called fall off. Essentially the 15th to 20th frets of the fretboard lays onto the top plate with little or no support.

After years or so, the top plate pulls up at the bridge (bellying) and the neck pulls up too. To get a lower action you can plane off some wood from the bridge, lower the saddle slot and ramp the string slots. At this point the lower part of the fingerboard levels off with the rest of the neck. If it goes beyond then you will have to plane the bottom part of the fingerboard to produce enough clearance.

So the question is should I adjust truss rod and will it help in this case?

The truss rod only adjusts for the neck relief on an acoustic flat top guitar, it does not lower string action. Only lowering of the nut and saddle can lower string action.

Remember that the fall off of the higher frets are designed to help the strings to be plucked heavily without fret rattle.

Thank you in advance for any advice

A 40 year old Japanese made acoustic with bellying and neck pull having its string action lowered.
First cut back the excess wood on the bridge


Saddle slot lowered, new bone saddle and ramping strings to the saddle foe correct 17 degree break angle.


Fingerboard tongue planed down with a cabinet scraper.


Refretted and then spot levelled.


Finished


Nice.

Not all acoustics need this work. This guitar spent its life in a local pub and stank of beer and cigarettes. Abused and used!

[Jonah]

Thank you very much, jazzbow, for the detailed and competent answer!

[jazzbow]

Thank you very much, jazzbow, for the detailed and competent answer!

No worries matey!

[docdosco]

I am interested in the quality also. Peerless built some Vintage for JHS way, way back when. Probably pre 2006. Some Chinese factories are building really decent instruments. In fact the solid bodies built for Rondo are pretty good. The real junk seems to be coming from Indonesia, Thailand and a few other counties that have obscenely cheap labor, and not a skilled luthier or knowledgeable guitar craftsman for a thousand miles.

I looked at Fender Squires for my 9 tyear old Godson. $99 to $129. Not a keeper in a dozen or more I tried. Indonesian made. I ordered a Chinese 3/4 size Tele from Rondo. It was actually decent for a kid's guitar.

[jazzbow]

I am interested in the quality also. Peerless built some Vintage for JHS way, way back when. Probably pre 2006.

I just cannot remember the name of the jazz guitars and I'm drawing a blank on t'internet.

I'll get back when I have something.

[Jonah]

I am interested in the quality also.

At least this one I have is very good... no construction issues at all, all done very smoothly... somr fretwork neededed, and probably I will change plastic nuts to bones.... I will see later.


I have Korean Epi Broadway and though guitars are different - the fret board and the fret marks look the same... and though my Broadway is very decent (better than those I tried at teh shop) - I still see that construction quality of this Vintage is better...

My tech said also thath the spruce on the top is very good - it has specific white waves on it - it's called 'haselfichte' in German....

when I was at the shop I aso tried the same model but with laminated sides and back and it sounded poorer, I triied also all -solid dreadnought (mahogany) - well... it was ok... but more straigh forward sound, less sublte...

I guess solid maple give more brightness, makes it more light,,,

Now with new '13 phosphire bronze the guitar is extremely sonorous... like bells and cannons... I know maybe it's not the best for jazz it's difficult to control this kind of super jumbo guitar sound.. but I still love it... and seems I can handle it...
It was very different from any guitar in the shop...

Grover tuners...

I will try to make pics and record sample...

The only thing... at the shop they said that the quality is unpredictable from one gutar to another...

[pubylakeg]

I just cannot remember the name of the jazz guitars and I'm drawing a blank on t'internet.

I'll get back when I have something.

If you're talking about Hornby Skewes line of hollow body Jazz guitars they were branded "Vintage". The hollow bodies had the model prefix VSA, and there were an ES-175 copy, a D'Aquisto look-alike (called the Brooklyn ?) and an epi casino type IIRC.

[jazzbow]

a D'Aquisto look-alike (called the Brooklyn ?)

That's it! Brooklyn....

Found it!



Thanks Pub-U-Like (lol) for the memory jog (too many pies and fine ales has addled the brain).

So now I have dug a little deeper and these are actually made in China and not Korea as I thought.
If anyone is interested there is one for sale here... https://www.maxguitarstore.com/produ...n-vsa-750-ats/ in Holland for a tidy €500/£395/$558

Gibson scale, Spruce top, maple sides, back and neck. It even has that D'Aguisto finial, nice