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This time , the H2. It's an ok guitar, maybe the best of the several I've tried. It doesn't have a lot of character though and of all the carvin holdsworth guitars I've played, it's got the least hollowbody feel to it.
It's also neck heavy which bothers me but with a suede strap I can mitigate it somewhat.
I was originally going to sell my seventy seven albatross since I don't need a multitude of semihollow guitars but the albatross smokes it in almost every way except for upper fret access. The albatross has a little bit more bluesy and nasty tone to it for fusion tones and has a really nice jazz tone. The holdsworth is more of an input-device in that it's not adding a lot of its own character to the tone which is probably just as well if you're using that super-violinesque tone...
Still trying to decide. I'm considering spending the next year working on legato playing and if I do that, the holdsworth might be a necessity...
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01-28-2016 12:07 PM
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I ordered an HF2 several years ago and loved so many things about it. The deal breakers for me were the fact that it wa neck-heavy (very difficult to deal with), and that the neck pickup was pushed out of the sweet spot (for me) due to the 24 fret neck. My core tone is 'clean' and I like to layer synth to thicken it up, which was something the HF2 was almost perfect for. I have played hollow and semi-hollow guitar most of the time I've been a musician, and prefer it, so the HF2 would've been perfect had it not been for these couple of issues. I ended up trying an El Ray for a while after selling my Carvin, but the neck-heavy problem was just as bad.
I wish Carvin would make a 22-fret neck. I could probably deal with the weight issue. I taped diving weights to my strap when I was playing the El Ray, and it almost worked. I'd *make* it work with a 22-fret Hf2.
Good luck with it, man..
PS - great books, by the way. I pull things out to shed every few months.
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I definitely know what you're saying with the 24 fret deal. I look at it like this: If you are playing the holdsworth style, you will be spending a lot of time playing above the 12th fret and probably never use the neck pickup so that's probably their reasoning. If they made the neck joint a couple frets lower than it currently is and made it 22 frets, it'd be a nice alternative for semi-hollow player. I'm able to get a methenyesque jazz tone out of the neck pickup when I turn the tone control down. The one I have was modified to put the strap button on the back of the guitar near the neck heel and that helps the balance a little bit but it's still annoying. The headless version is not neck heavy but I found that it balanced weird. For example, the top of the guitar would tilt downward making it awkward to play when standing...
Originally Posted by ghoststrat
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Yeah, I put my strap button there, too, and still had problems. I also used the second button, but the thing pitched forward.
I messed with the tone controls a bit, but things start to 'feel' weird when I mess with a guitar's tone controls. I don't know why, it just does. It's probably psychological, but it starts to feel like I have water in my ears, or something.
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I can't believe I didn't ask, yet..
Do you have a pic to post, or send?
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Kind of odd that in this day and age people design neck heavy guitars. More common with electric basses. Instead they make customers buy ultralight tuners and relocate the strap buttons.
To me, ES-335s and LPs are not balanced right, but back in the 50s a lot (maybe most) players played with the butt end between the legs when sitting down, where they balance fine. But I don't understand why manufacturers today would design, and celebrities endorse, guitars that are not perfectly balanced.
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I know what you mean but I'm used to that tone because I was influenced by Pat Metheny, lol Originally Posted by ghoststrat
I'll post a pic tonight. Originally Posted by ghoststrat
I agree 100%. It puzzles me when guitars like the PRS Hollowbody, Eastman El Rey, Godin ACS, Gibson 336 are released that have this issue. The Holdsworth already has aluminum tuners so I'm not sure you can cure the problem with tuners. In the case of the holdsworth guitar, they wanted a guitar with 24 frets that has a really high neck/body joint to facilitate upper register playing so it's understandable that the issue exists but they could solve the problem by having a little plug-in slot where you could optionally insert a counterweight if it bothered you. Originally Posted by nopedals
I heard that the headless version was designed to solve that problem. And it was not neck heavy so in that way it succeeded.
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Things have changed. It used to be that if you mentioned Carvin on a non-Carvin forum, you'd immediately get bashed. Their instruments aren't for me, but they're well made, and I'm glad they're finally getting some respect.
But it appears that they're gradually getting rid of the Carvin name in favor of the Kiesel name for their guitars and basses, because old reputations die hard.
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They still are rather soul-less to me. I can see how the holdsworth may be the ideal (cheap) legato guitar because of the 20" radius, jumbo frets and high neck/body joint but A/B'ing the holdsworth with my Seventy Seven is eye opening. The seventy seven has way more vibe to it. The holdsworth by comparison is more of an input device. However, for the holdsworth thing you are typically processing the heck out of the guitar so in that context it's ok. Originally Posted by Ghostofachance
I've heard some good sounds out of the semi-hollow guitar like the gambale model.
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When at GIT a lot of Carvin's around becuase they are cheap and there is a Carvin store in Hollywood. So I played a number of Carvins of fellow students and at the Carvin store and I agree they are just missing something especially in the area of sound they are soul less.
Now their amp's both guitar and audio gear are good bang for the buck. Maybe that's why they split into two companies recently Carvin making amps and now Kiesel guitars.Last edited by docbop; 01-28-2016 at 06:29 PM.
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I prefer the S22s in my SH550 to the 57 classics in my 335. Better articulation, a little more like single coils. But that's just me.
I like the Fralin P-92s in my Dot better than both of the others. They're all drippy with character.
I'd like to see what Carvin/Kiesel would do with a hollow body. They seem to be playing around with their pickups more these days.Last edited by zigzag; 01-28-2016 at 06:32 PM.
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Well, I guess that makes sense, since Holdsworth uses something like six MagicStomps and a boost pedal into four amps. Too much information coming from the guitar would probably be problematic. I've never had a chance to play the Fatboy or the headless Holdsworth but would like to take 'em for a spin. Originally Posted by jzucker
ISTR that Jeremy Poparad has/had one of these. Isn't he in your neck of the woods? Does he still use his?
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just as an aside..best guitar i played for holdsworth type stuff
light, comfortable and superb fret access
cheers
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jeremey has the HH1 which is the standard fatboy and it's neck heavy also. He still uses it but has an 8 string and several other really boutique axes he uses. He and I play together when we can. Originally Posted by Cunamara
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And > $4000!
Originally Posted by neatomic
just as an aside..best guitar i played for holdsworth type stuff
light, comfortable and superb fret access
cheers
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Great video Jack--I'm hearing a lot of Pat Metheney in there!
I loved the workmanship of my Carvin's, but I agree that there was a soul-less quality (which I attribute to the pickups).
I had a very wide strap, so the neck-heavy HF2 Fatboy didn't bother me (I liked the 20" radius). Some guy from China bought my SH550. Jeff
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Interesting discussion regarding Carvins. I've been watching an SC90 on a local auction sight but have never had the chance to try a Carvin. Theydo look very nicely put-together.
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i think another factor with the carvins and "character" is the fiberglass / graphite rods and double expanding truss rods. To me, wood is what you want in the neck. I have owned a lot of basses that have fiberglass rods in the neck and to me, they are more sterile than wood necks with the vintage style truss rod. Same thing with strats. I think carvin started doing that because they buy non-seasoned wood and they kiln dry it so the rods and double expanding truss rods mitigate that. It's one reason they are relatively cheap IMO. I haven't given up on the carvin yet though. Though I'm wondering if the HH1 would be a better fit for what I'm looking for.
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Excellent point jz, but Carvin makes very comfortable and easy to play necks. I've only owned one Carvin, and its neck took about a year and a half or two to stabilize. During that time, I was tweaking it three or four times a year. For three years, I haven't touched it.
Last edited by zigzag; 01-29-2016 at 08:53 AM.
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I agree and that's likely why AH chose to use them. I found a thread where in 2012 they stopped using the graphite rods for a while but apparently started using them again. Originally Posted by zigzag
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"Sheets Of Sound--Legato Edition" would be a great addition to the guitar playing world. Holdsworth practically admits he is not an educator; "Just For The Curious" is just that. Information for the curious, but not "This is How You Can Play This Way..." Originally Posted by jzucker
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Yeah, those headless ones look really cool to me. And they average 5 pounds, according to the website! Originally Posted by jzucker
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A guy I know has a Headless Holdsworth (it's a guitar! It's a Harry Potter character Two for the price of one!), and I played it a bit. No neck dive, and the compact form factor seems pretty useful. But at least for me, neck-pickup tone is a deal-breaker, and I'm pretty sure this is a product of its position due to the 24-fret neck, rather than other aspects of its construction (e.g., graphite neck rods). I had a 24-fret neck guitar for many years, and have played a few others, and I've come to the conclusion that 24-fret necks are just not a very good idea. I don't see how the minor benefit of occasionally being able to sing to the mosquitoes offsets ergonomic and neck-tone challenges. Originally Posted by dingusmingus
John
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Holdsworth doesn't use a neck pickup on his guitars. I don't mind the 24 fret neck pickup placement for an instrument of this type. You don channel Peter Bernstein, Jim Hall or Joe Pass with this type of guitar. Originally Posted by John A.
And it's not just "occasionally" playing in the upper register. Most guitarists are predominantly low register players. Few jazz guitarists play above the 12th position. With the 24 fret guitars, it's not uncommon to play in 17th position. Not possible on most 20 fret instruments.
This tone sounds fine to me and not only is it a 24 fret guitar but a single coil in the neck!
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Like I said, I had a 24 fret guitar for many years, and played a lot of different kinds of music with it other than straightahead jazz. My fingers barely even fit in the last two frets, and though I often find myself north of the 12th fret, never found much use for more than 22. Cool link and tones but that doesn't sound at all like a neck pickup to me. Assuming it's this guitar, ( ) maybe some of it is the bridge and neck blended, but not the neck on its own. Anyway, thanks for the link -- he seems like a player worth exploring, an aesthetic closer to someone like Wayne Krantz, whom I dig more than Holdsworth (but de gustibus non es disputando). Originally Posted by jzucker
John
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